M: For some reason not... so, it doesn't say that we're recording, but it looks like we are. So, since we are recording already, my question now is - maybe you have any questions about the research or the discussion itself that I should answer?

LTFG3_M2: I have a question - you had written that we need to have a pen and a piece of paper, so do we need to write down some questions, I don't know, on that paper?

M: We will need it soon.

LTFG3_M2: A, ok.

M: Not for the questions, but for an answer.

LTFG3_M2: Yeah.

M: But you will need it only once. Very briefly.

LTFG3_M2: Got it.

(short pause)

M: ((briefly informs that the moderator will provide information about the dinner and the Brussels discussion after the discussion))

Okay, so if there are no questions, and since we have tested before that everything is working, and also you can see your names, then maybe we go straight to the first question, right. A... and so that's where you'll need the sheet of paper, right. Now, whoever has it, take it. Whoever doesn't have it, it is not a big problem either. A... what are the first three thoughts that come to your mind when you hear the words “European Union” or “EU”?

((~75 seconds for writing down the thoughts))

M: I see there are some who have already written. If some are still writing, maybe we can start {talking} bit by bit. I don't know, maybe LTFG3_F4, {let's start} from you. What three things did you write down?

LTFG3_F4: Yeah, so for me the first thing is opportunities. Then mobility. And security.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_F6?

LTFG3_F6: For me, too, free movement. Then the single market. And common European law. Well, like legal framework.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M3?

LTFG3_M3: I've written down points like funding. Mutual help. And growth or expansion. I mean in terms of economics and science.

M: Thank you. Who else is left? LTFG3_M1?

LTFG3_M1: I've written down the economic block. Then I’ve written down Erasmus. And then the West as a culture, some kind of cultural thing.

M: Thank you. And LTFG3_M2?

LTFG3_M2: I wrote down support, travel and culture.

M: And LTFG3_F5.

LTFG3_F5: It's that monetary support. Support {backing up} (OL: palaikymas). And free movement.

M: Thank you. Well, I've managed to write down a lot of things. A... Yeah, there are some things I'd like to ask you a bit more about. LTFG3_M3, you mentioned mutual help, right. What did you have in mind?

LTFG3_M3: M... In the sense that it's still a union of states, which {the states} sort of provide for {take care of} each other and sometimes help each other. A... either financially, or materially, or in some other sense. You can see a lot of this, for example, when you travel, either in Lithuanian cities or even in schools, there are often signs that say "Here was the European Union" and "Financed by Europe" or something like that. So maybe that's why there were... these associations.

M: Do others have similar associations about the European Union, that mutual help? Like LTFG3_M3, or maybe something different?

LTFG3_M2: Well, yes. Mine would also be similar on that support. It's financial, it's... And maybe even, let's say, military support. Well, anyway, those, I don't know, the NATO block, how many of those European Union states belong there, but also. It's... I think the same support belongs to that.

M: Thank you. Anyone else has to contribute {something}?

(short pause)

M: LTFG3_F5, yours was similar, "support" {backing up}, right, your word. Again, what did you put in there?

LTFG3_F5: So, support {backing up}, maybe that... that military support, e... Also maybe I would say cooperation, I don't know, I think, I imagine that the representatives of the countries maybe [smiles] cooperate more on some kinds, some kinds of issues.

M: And some of you mentioned, say, LTFG3_M2 - culture, LTFG3_M1 - the West, right. That kind of things. What do these concepts mean to you? Say, LTFG3_M2, {let's start} from you - you mentioned culture, what did you mean?

LTFG3_M2: I actually meant that actually in the whole of, let's say, the European Union, there are a lot of countries with, well, with different cultures. Well, in the sense of those customs and so on and so forth. And it is just that the culture is so very diverse in the European Union. So that's what I meant, just the different customs, traditions, and that there are a lot of them, and different ones.

M: What about that diversity? How do you feel about it?

LTFG3_M2: A... I see it positively. I think that, well, a... you have to really understand, you have to look at other people's traditions and, on the other hand, it's also interesting to see how other people live, how they see the world, what their clothes are and a... traditions. And on the other hand, you still have to have, say, maybe some common boundaries and attitudes. Because in some cultures there are some things that are more acceptable... and other cultures don't accept those things, let's say. So I think that's something that needs to be, like, I don't know, boundaries, so to speak.

M: LTFG3_M1, you've marked the "West". What was that about?

LTFG3_M1: Well, here I was maybe, I was maybe ironically saying a little bit, because I associate the European Union with the fact that these are all liberal democracies after all. And well, there are a lot of similarities culturally, and maybe I mean the West like, especially maybe in Lithuania, there is such a big contrast to those supposedly "traditional" values, like all kinds of family marches. And now it's the West with the irony that, "Oh, there's all this LGBT propaganda and stuff coming from the West". And maybe along the way, since this is maybe a little bit related to the, well, something that LTFG3_M2 mentioned about NATO, I would say that this is a separate thing, because the European Union does not have its own army. And NATO is like a much broader entity that would defend much more of the world.

M: Well... but let's say, for example, LTFG3_F4, you mentioned that you associate the European Union with security, right. Again, what, where... what is security for you?

LTFG3_F4: It's a whole-encompassing security. Let's simply take traveling. When we travel in the European Union countries, we each have a health card in our wallet which ensures that we are taken care of. That necessary medical help will be provided. Whereas in, say, Serbia, which is not yet, well, aspires to be, but is not yet in the European Union, we would not get that help. I think this is elementary, where it gives us security. Because I actually feel quite safe when I am traveling in France or Italy. And then of course about the bigger, the bigger capacity, which would be all the armies combined. And well, the politics that is in accord. It is not only about economics, it is also about politics, where there are discussions, talks, and we, Lithuania, for example, we know the objectives of France, Italy, and other members of the European Union. Well, these are common objectives. That is why it is safe, I would say.

[00:10:57]

M: Thank you. And also that word commonality (OL: bendrumas) and LTFG3_F6, you sad like - common market, common law. Maybe you could also comment a little bit on what was in your mind behind that.

LTFG3_F6: Yes. It's the common European law, so let's say a... it overrides the legal system of each individual member state. And it's... when violating, as Poland has violated, say, with the appointment of judges and just with certain disregard for the same legislation that is recognised in Europe and that is used, well, in... in the legal framework of the European Union, then there is a penalty of some kind. And there is encouragement to apply the European Union to the legal framework in each... individual state and that it is respected {followed}. And the single market is that each individual... each Community state does not need to deal separately with each... with customs, trade and other agreements with each and every country of the European Union. There is simply a single European Union trade agreement which is, well, valid for each state. That is what I was thinking about.

M: Thank you. Maybe while we were talking about these various questions, maybe others got some additional thoughts, or wanted to say something else in this place?

(short pause)

M: Yes, please, LTFG3_M1.

LTFG3_M1: Here army was mentioned again, well, as far as I know, the European Union does not have its own army. That NATO is like a separate entity. And as for the m... something else... Well, on the law, I wanted to say that to my understanding, at least, is that things are complicated with the law, it is not like that, that necessarily it is an overriding law, well, the principles might be overriding somehow, but well... it is much more complicated rather than ( ) that just the European Union says it and ( ). But of course, the Polish example is the opposite. Well, it's, well, ( ) situations.

M: Thank you. ((the moderator asks LTFG3_M1 to speak louder because some of the words, the endings of the sentences are not heard well)). Okay, but thank you and I think, I have a feeling that we will come back to these questions. Am... The next question is, how would each of you describe your general attitude, outlook or feelings towards the European Union? Right. And of course, would you elaborate why that is? I don't know whether someone would like to start or whether-

LTFG3_F4: -I can start.

M: Please, LTFG3_F4.

LTFG3_F4: It's actually first of all a feeling of gratitude for the opportunities. Because actually, as far as I have been able to use the opportunities, both Erasmus Plus projects and other projects that you can just write when you come up with an idea and implement, it's e... to invite foreigners to come to Lithuania, implement certain activities, travel more safely, I really feel very grateful. It's because of the opportunities it gives. And also for the potential of whole-encompassing growth. It's as much about the study opportunities, gaining experience in other countries, experiencing. Well, that kind of international feeling. So, well, I really feel very grateful for these aspects. It's a good feeling [laughs].

M: Thank you.

LTFG3_F5: I would continue. It's also when now during the pandemic that they were taking, both buying vaccines and taking those loans, so... vaccines are being bought much cheaper than... together, as the European Union is buying, than each member state would have bought {separately}. Also, the... the loans are given... at significantly better interest rates. Well, cheaper than it would be for each individual member. And simply, that co... the commonality (OL: bendrumas) of the market and the economy itself. That there is stimulation, if, say, like the Greek crisis, the Italian {crisis}, then there is stimulation, subsidies and things like that. Like with the subsidies, let's say agriculture is subsidised, well, mainly by the funds of the European Union, without them it would be very difficult to manage. So I think that is very helpful and a very, very good thing.

M: Thank you. Who, who's next?

LTFG3_M3: I would probably say that, well, anyway... really, in most cases, that attitude towards the European Union is positive. But at the same time, perhaps my view is a little bit different, in that I see it as a very interesting phenomenon and experiment, you could say a kind of [smiles] global scale, that... that quite separate cultures, states, nations, you could say, have come together to achieve one kind of approach. Maybe a common wellbeing. And at the same time, to achieve that wellbeing... not... achieve... to {achieve} that common wellbeing, but at the same time not to ignore their individual cultures. It's such an interesting, even historical {thing}, I would say.

M: Thank you. Who else is left here? Maybe, LTFG3_M2, what is your general position?

LTFG3_M2: Well, mine is, let's say, a... well, opportunities, too. For example, that p... the same movement {freedom of movement}, and I also, when I like to, when I plan to go somewhere, I just want to make it as easy as possible and because of that, because of that, like, that Schengen area, it is easier to travel, just between countries, at least in the European Union. And also the possibility of free study tuition, state-funded places, I think it is also related to the fact that the country can allow students to study for free, even with minimum requirements, but for free. On the other hand, in some countries studies are quite expensive. So, that is why I would also second that I am grateful and, at the same time, there just are more opportunities. And maybe even security as well because of... well, from an environmental point of view. In my opinion, at least it is just that in Europe, maybe in most countries {of the EU}, I think the requirements are higher for waste management than in the rest of the world. I think so.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_F5?

LTFG3_F5: To me, it's just associated with good things. Maybe first of all with the financial support, because there are a lot of projects funded by the European Union, that generally help us as a state. But also, for example, each and every company can write a project and get that funding. That economy is only developing. And that they {the EU} invest in us, and that we can grow very well too. And that, for example, like Erasmus, well, I was supposed to go myself, but I didn't go because of the covid, so it was a pity. But that... where... if it wasn't for Erasmus Plus, I probably wouldn't have gone to that other country for six months, and I wouldn't be there. It's the kind of thing that gives you the opportunity where it really seems... just that you can get to know the other country more, and well, studying in another country is a very good thing and it is beneficial.

M: Thank you. And LTFG3_M1 is still left.

[00:20:14]

LTFG3_M1: Well, my opinion is not, not as positive as that of my colleagues. That I also feel sufficiently grateful for the various opportunities that the European Union provides. This is especially in terms of, in terms of education and in terms of that freedom to travel and things like that, which has been mentioned a lot. But, again, I would stress that this is a union of liberal democracies and with that come the corresponding pluses, such as all kinds of freedoms, namely the emphasis on freedom, and the economic values of all kinds. However, with that come many, many negatives. That, for example, the subsidies that are received are not subsidies that are received, like, just that you take the money and that’s it. There are corresponding obligations. There are corresponding values, for example that... especially in recent years, in recent decades [very low volume].

M: Can you turn your volume up? ((the moderator asks for the sound to be fixed, because the sound is very quiet))

LTFG3_M1: ((puts on headphones)) It's just that the values are there, there are pluses, but there are also minuses. That, for example, there is a correspondingly problematic imperialist past, there are corresponding, I don't know, internal problems of all kinds, and I just don't have such a positive attitude. But I also feel quite strongly that it is a positive thing and we just need to work on those problems. That, well, they exist, but they're not some kind of, well... it's just an ambiguous attitude.

M: And tell me if ((LTFG3_M1 is handling the headphones again. The moderator says that she will wait until she has sorted it out to continue the conversation. She waits for ~20s))

LTFG3_M1: I'm entangled here {with the wires}, but I hope I'm better now.

M: Yeah, better for now. Yeah, so if you may, about that value thing, if I understand correctly, you meant it like a sort of semi-negative thing?

LTFG3_M1: A... well, yes. Well, because just like, capitalism is a thing that has its own values. And one of those values is that the economy is very important, economic growth is very important. And in order to maintain that growth, there are various subsidies, and various movements, and various, for example, e... well, economic... actions. For example, such as, well, I don't know how to say it in Lithuanian, but there are "austerity measures" {participant says “austerity measures” in English}. For example, like the crisis in 2008, various banks and similar institutions were bought up {meaning were rescued}, but people who suffered the most, people who... the people suffered the most because of that. Although they, they could have... well, they felt it very, very physically, like the houses {were lost}, and they couldn't buy food. And for example the banks and the big institutions, they, well, they, there was nothing physically wrong with them, but they were financing them. Precisely this system. That's what these values are about.

M: LTFG3_F4 I see you raise your hand?

LTFG3_F4: Yes. I mean, LTFG3_M1, you're talking really interestingly, but I'm wondering in what kind of system, in what kind of order would you imagine that there would be no problems at all [smiles] on this particular issue? Is there a model country, maybe not in the EU, that is doing very well and is a model?

LTFG3_M1: Well, I'm... I'm not saying that there are some countries that are perfect. I'm just saying that there are appropriate systems that have pluses and minuses. And the focus of this system is precisely that the economy is very important. I am not saying that there are perfect systems here. And perhaps in such cases I, because we live in Lithuania, I feel it is important to stress, that it is much better than the Soviet Union. It was that the Soviet Union was a complete tragedy and that, thank God, it is over. However, I think it is important to be realistic about both the European Union and capitalism.

M: Thank you. And LTFG3_M3. LTFG3_M3, you mentioned that, again, one of the additional aspects, right, is that diversity of countries, right, that diversity... the different countries are sort of lumped together, right. How does that diversity of countries look to others, right, in that European Union? How do you, I don't know, look at it? (short pause) Well, this is a question for everyone. So who wants to, who has some idea of this?

LTFG3_F6: I think that this cultural diversity is a very nice thing and a good thing, because now that Kaunas is the European Capital of Culture for year 2022, there are all kinds of events, concerts, exhibitions, literary events, sports events, all kinds of things. And so citizens from all over the European Union are invited to this city. Next year to another. And I think it allows you to get to know those... culture of each country, to know what it's about, what the history is. I think it's very good because, well, when else is it possible to get to know another culture, if not by travelling, like the free market and so on. And since there are so many nations in Europe, I think it is a very good thing. And to be able to live together so amicably for so many years, especially now in the common market like the European Union, I think is a very incredible and good thing.

M: Thank you.

LTFG3_F4: Yes, so I would just add to LTFG3_F6 that actually, well, the European Union does have those goals, especially for young people like us. Like the European youth gatherings. It seems that every year there is a Europe's youth event in Strasbourg, which attracts a huge number of young people from the countries of the European Union. And, well, they can discuss various political topics, even join certain discussion in the Parliament itself. So it is very interesting indeed. And to meet other people from other countries. And also to feel like they are someone who can influence decisions in some way. For example, in the case of the Erasmus Plus projects. One of the aims is to promote that cooperation, getting to know, well, getting to know other people, other... [smiles] people of other nationalities. I think that's what it's about.

M: Thank you. Would there be any other additions, objections, other opinions?

LTFG3_M1: I might, if I'm not talking too much here. And I hope you can hear me better now. I'm thinking about Kaunas as a European Capital of Culture. I would again add nuances to this. For example, there are very good objectives, and for me, well, I am very supportive of all cultural, all these cultural ideas. But I would add the fact that when it comes to Kaunas as a capital of culture, well, when they tried, there was an attempt to organise an LGBT march in Kaunas, there were three or four times when they {municipal authorities} just said 'No'. Well, with some excuses like "Oh, we are renovating here". And then they {organisers} had to go through the courts to organise the march. So this European Capital of Culture is supposed to symbolise that the opposite should be true. But there is this thing. It's just that I'm just... is that, it sound ambiguous to me, a la homophobes.

M: Thank you. Okay, if I don't see anybody else who wants to comment, this is a slightly maybe related question to the one before. And you said a lot of things, but maybe something else will come to your mind. If someone were to say that membership in the European Union is good for Lithuania, what are the benefits or advantages that you could list?

LTFG3_F4: Mh. I could speak in terms of facts straight away. That it allowed me to travel... to eight or nine European Union countries. And well, it was travel for free. Funded by the European Union. And it's not just about that free travel, it's about being able to know and experience both the culture and the people, and to feel safe about the whole thing. Because these are, after all, European Union projects, which have their own rules, and the safety of the participants must be taken care of. So for a young person, it offers a lot of opportunities, and one of them is travelling. And it is not divided... It's not divided into groups, who can travel and who can't. It is an opportunity for everybody.

M: What other benefits or advantages would you see in Lithuania's membership in the European Union?

[00:30:19]

LTFG3_F6: I would probably see this, when it was from 2011 to 2014 when they were renovating, creating new parks in Lithuania, in every town. Then regional development was promoted. Then, this is also coming from the European Union, countries are being encouraged to develop regions. Then the same renovation of schools, also most of the furniture and electronic equipment, it is subsidised and bought with European Union funds. And I think this has helped our education a lot. Well, just for update. And I think that alone is a big, big help from the European Union.

M: What else could it be?

[LTFG3_M2 and LTFG3_M3 start talking at the same time]

LTFG3_M2: Well, so to say [smiles]. I would just like to make a comment about that movement, that I think it is very good for Lithuania, well, for Lithuanian people, that there is easy movement in the European Union, in that area, Schengen. Just because it just broadens people's horizons, and if you look at Lithuania's past, let's say, maybe the Lithuanians were more restrained, and there were still a lot of wars, so... And now it's just easier to get to know the world, the people, how they look at the world differently, and maybe even tolerance, let's say, is being developed a little bit more. I think that's why the European Union is very useful for Lithuania. It is also about support for agriculture, about financing the purchase of all that machinery for people. Just for farmers. The fact that Lithuania has all that farmland and it is very good when we can simply supply other countries with food grown in our territory. So the economy, let us say, from the economic point of view, it is a very good thing. That is. Yes.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M3?

LTFG3_M3: I wouldn't say that I know the European Union very well, maybe in general terms, I say everything. But it seems to me that it gives Lithuania, and other, well, strong countries in Europe, you could say, it gives a kind of financial cushion. The possibility of making a mistake somewhere, or of getting through some of the more difficult periods. It is basically a bit about guarantees. And I fully subscribe to the views of others, of other participants, about the opportunities for young people and not only young people to develop their ideas. Because in fact it gives Lithuania a window into the… more liberal ideas, perspectives and as LTFG3_M1 mentioned about for example that... those LGBT marches. If, despite the fact that they were not organised in Kaunas, there were still attempts. And I think that the whole union {the EU} with its ideas and everything, it is slowly spreading those ideas to all communities, all countries, everything. Of course, the other thing is the attitude of the people. Still, it's... But I don't think, for example, that those ideas are very bad somehow.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_F5 maybe?

LTFG3_F5: I would just like to agree with that, and I would like to say again that how much can our economy grow because of that particular support, how much can our economy grow, like those, I don't know, the parks, the schools, or the companies themselves. How much the European Union gives us. Because if it wasn't for that, let's say, so much support, then we would have a lot less in Lithuania. Now we can develop more.

M: Thank you. And LTFG3_M1?

LTFG3_M1: I don't really have much more to add. Colleagues have really listed everything I think.

M: Okay, so then the reverse question. If someone says that Lithuania does not benefit from EU membership. What disadvantages could you list?

(long pause)

LTFG3_M3: I would go again on the value front here. A... I'll say that, well, I'll say it again, that maybe I partly agree with those ideas that are spreading with liberalism and with the European Union approach, with values. But it still happens that there are people who do not agree with that and, I might say, it is destroying their world. Where they see that there should still be... there has to be some sort of... a certain order has to be maintained, even though it may be, for example, confirmed by scientists that it is bad and so on. And on the one hand it leads towards good, but with... certain people may think that they have been betrayed. That even though it's their country, for example, their particular country, it's still being led by other countries and so they don't have a particular choice.

M: Thank you. What other disadvantages, say, might there be?

LTFG3_F4: Yes. There's actually this ambiguous thing, which is the currency. Because the litas, for me it's really nice when a country has its own currency. But also when you think about travels, travelling [laughs], you would always have to exchange that {money}. I mean, it can be convenient to have {one currency}. But on the other hand, well, it's a pity really that we don't have, we haven't kept our litas. It is kind of ambiguous here. Both an advantage and at the same time not.

M: Thank you. What else? I don't know, LTFG3_F6, maybe you see some disadvantages?

LTFG3_F6: Am... Not really a... {I don't see} any disadvantages. What membership in the European Union would bring to Lithuania.

M: But maybe there is something that is not so useful for us in being in the European Union? I don't know?

LTFG3_F6: Actually, I see only benefits and advantages. No disadvantages. Well, except for the litas, as LTFG3_F4 said. It's kind of a sign of statehood. But e... I support the euro. I don't know, I only see the benefits, and I don't really see any disadvantages.

M: LTFG3_M1, I think you wanted to join before? Thank you.

LTFG3_M1: Mh. I might {add} on what colleagues have mentioned. LTFG3_F4 and LTFG3_M3. So I think that they remarked very, very rightly about those values. That... well, I wanted to tell maybe briefly - my dad has very negative views about the European Union. And I oppose him and I disagree with him on these issues. Because I think the European Union is good for Lithuania all in all. And for us in general. But what he says is that he grew up under the Soviet system. And exactly, what he is saying is that 'Well, we have now liberated ourselves, and now we have come back to exactly the same thing, that we were ruled by the Soviets, and now we are being ruled by somebody from Brussels'. That's his attitude. What was said about the litas, that, well, it is perhaps as a good symbol of statehood, that we are giving up, our, our freedom, our principles, for some European Union money. I would say that, perhaps. Although I would not... well, there are always nuances, but I don't agree in principle with this particular argument {of my dad}.

M: I also see LTFG3_M3 is raising his hand.

LTFG3_M3: Well, and I would also say this, again, with that, co... with those general agreements and so on. For example, there is a much-heard case with the at... with the Ignalina nuclear power plant - is it a good thing that it was closed down or is it a bad thing? But again, I haven't looked too deep into that question, I don't know how much it was - was it a good power plant or a bad power plant. But also, if you look at it this way, initially the European Union sort of renounced nuclear power plants, wanted to move towards wind and solar energy. But now, for example, it recognises that this is not enough and that nuclear power plants are needed. And of course it is normal to be wrong. Particularly when you've... we can never know all the aspects. But still, when there is this... when the whole European Union is such a big ship, so inertic {operating from inertia}, sometimes you can take the wrong direction, and then everybody like - either get pluses or minuses. It's... here again, the attachment comes out a little bit {to common EU decisions}.

[00:40:15]

M: Thank you. LTFG3_F4, I see you are raising your hand.

LTFG3_F4: Mh. Yes. That would be such an ambiguous thing here as well. It's e... The advantage would be that really employees, skilled employees, really can move very freely and well, that labour market is in the European Union really, well, just good professionals are accepted everywhere. Wherever... Well, a good professional is welcome everywhere if he is really professional. So that would be an advantage. Well, it's really good, and in other countries there can be higher salaries and better, let's say, living conditions. But, well, for Lithuania it is not very favourable, because, well, workers emigrate to other countries. And then there is a reduction... Unemployment in Lithuania increases, there is a shortage of qualified specialists, which is still the case today. And the best minds, the sharpest minds, go to other countries. Where, well, their work is valued almost in double, in triple. And in Lithuania, what is left is what is left. I am not sure of the reason for that, but it could be that the inflation rate is also rising, because, well, the shortage of labour force could also be a cause of that. I don't know if that's the case, but from my knowledge of economics [smiles] it seems that it could be.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M2, do you see any disadvantages maybe?

LTFG3_M2: A... I just, well, I liked LTFG3_M3 idea about values. That well... I just want to add that, well, when there are so many cultures, they are also similar in some regards, some values, and in others they are different. And maybe that's what happens, that people become too, I think, different in some ways. Maybe, for example, the LGBT, like, I don't know - the idea or the movement - but for some people it's just so unacceptable that for them, well, the whole understanding, perception of the world just falls apart. And here I also see another disadvantage of the European Union, maybe not only the European Union, but it is the lack of communication. It's not just because of, say, a... the LGBT ideas, but in general, say, regarding pandemic, regarding vaccines, people have a lot of questions, but somehow... I don't know, there is some kind of rush about it. Also, because of some of the projects financed by the European Union, for example, in my town, there was a plan to finance the restoration of a dam. Well... yeah, repairing it. But just like there was that discussion about the importance of such repairs. But nobody knew or did not participate, and in the end, when it came to the project implementation now, I don't know how to say it, and there were a lot of people who didn't really want to see that reconstruction. But, but they just kind of didn't care about the importance of that reconstruction and the benefits. It's just, well, it's clearly also the fault of the people themselves that they were not very interested. But on the other hand, maybe we can somehow strengthen that communication. And then it would be easier to achieve the objectives. That's it. It's just the lack of communication and the diversity of values, let's say. So those are the few disadvantages, at least in my understanding.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_F5, do you have any more disadvantages to add?

LTFG3_F5: Well, I don't have any such disadvantages, unless I could just, for example, agree that maybe it's a pity about the litas, but for example, if I were to go to other countries right now, I wouldn't want to [smiles] calculate their currency. I would be much more comfortable with the euro. It is just that there is all the time ( ). Or also like LTFG3_M3 said, that those like values, maybe somebody, I don't know, doesn't like ( ) maybe, let's say, the world can be destroyed. I think it's just that we're very... different and it's not going to be that everything is good for everybody all the time. But I think we still strive for that kind of equality and that it is good for everybody. I think that's what's being aimed for.

M: Aha, I see LTFG3_M1 has his hand raised.

LTFG3_M1: I would maybe second to what LTFG3_M2 said on the communication, maybe most of all about the European Parliament, that I've been quite, well, I don't know if I've been interested much, but I've been quite interested in the European Union, how it works, at least a little for some time. And it is still unclear to me what they do there in the European Parliament. What they do there that is useful, apart from distributing funds, and I couldn't ( ) say whether they in particular are responsible for that. So I think there is a lack of communication there as well.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_F5, you mentioned equality somehow. What do you mean, right, what equality are you talking about?

LTFG3_F5: I don't know, just equality that a... well, for example, when maybe for others LGBT members are not acceptable, but they also have the right to be the way they are. And and I don't know, maybe like during those... just there was a march, they still had that march and that, I don't know, they could, like, express themselves, even though there were those, like, negative like comments and opinions all the time. But em... I don't know how to say it, it's not that both sides have spoken, but even if somebody didn't like it, it's not like, maybe Lithuania isn't very tolerant yet really, but they're spreading that message and I don't know. So I cannot say that everybody is happy, because, let's say, if there was a march, somebody was not happy anyway. But... (short pause) I would like to add something else, but I can't think of it.

M: Thank you. I don't know, are there are any more comments about disadvantage or shortcomings? Well, if not, then let's move on, we were kind of stuck a lot in this place. Now there will be such questions as situations. And the first one is this. Imagine that a major natural disaster has occurred in one of the countries of the European Union. For example, an earthquake, a flood or a forest fire. How would you say the European Union as an institution should react?

LTFG3_F4: I know that there is a programme in the European Union that has to, must, respond. To provide a certain support, whether it is a fire or a natural disaster. I don't remember what the name of that programme is, but I do know. It is supposed to react very quickly and to provide all the help it can. Whether it is financial, whether it is this, whether it is something else that it could add in some way. Contribute to this.

M: What others think?

[LTFG3_F5 and LTFG3_F6 start talking together]

M: LTFG3_F5 first, yeah, then LTFG3_F6.

LTFG3_F5: I'm going to make maybe a little bit, I don't know, as an example... to say that I know that, say, when there was this whole corona thing going on, that we had, like, more vaccines or received something, I don't know exactly, but I know that we agreed to give another country, like, to give them more vaccines because, I don't know, I know they needed more. And, as it were, we gave that support. So maybe at the same time I imagine that... I don't know, maybe as it was mentioned, that there is some other support where there are some victims, that... I don't know if other countries help each other in some way.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_F6, right, you want to add. And then LTFG3_M3 and LTFG3_M1 in turn.

LTFG3_F6: Yeah. It's always that from neighbouring countries, either helicopters, or special forces of some other kind, that go and help with the current disaster. Like, say, in Spain or Greece, there were fires during a huge drought. And as far as I remember, Lithuania immediately sent two or three helicopters that can carry, well, and pour water. That is the kind of help. Those common... that kind of sense of community {communality} within the European Union.

[00:50:12]

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M3?

LTFG3_M3: Well, I would say that clearly the European Union, the countries of the European Union should be helped. But I fully believe that there would be people who would say, "Why should I... I'm working now, I'm paying taxes, and they with our helicopter that I paid for, they're going to take someone else... out of the fire. Let them burn there themselves. My money is more important to me". Especially I think it can be especially em... when really we can understand how much money [smiles] the state is giving away and all that. But I still think, well, I would say... That's why that sense of community is important, and it's very good that the European Union is like... encourages to cultivate in people {the sense} that, that it's not just you, and it's not just you who may encounter trouble, but you will be helped, and you will help.

M: Thank you very much. LTFG3_M1?

LTFG3_M1: Well, I would add maybe very briefly to LTFG3_M3 comment, about that sense of community, I don't know how much of that exists. Because one of the problems of the European Union, as I see it, is that there is no some kind of common identity that unites all, all countries. That there are economic ties, all kinds of ties, but there is not that deep, identity-based connection. A... but what I wanted to say about your question is that I... I don't remember whether it was 'What would the countries of the European Union do' or 'What should they do'?

M: What should they do?

LTFG3_M3: What should they do? Well, they should help, of course, it's not even a question of what they should do. It's just that we are, we are bound by various, various things... variuos things. And obviously we need to help. Our strength is that we are a block that looks after each other, cares for each other. At least in some, in some ways. Not necessarily from the heart, benevolently, but they should help. But I immediately think of an example, not necessarily with am... with a natural disaster, but with the migrant crisis that is happening right now in Lithuania. I don't remember there being some kind of, some European Union countries saying, 'Invite migrants, we will accept them, we will help them, there is no problem that you are not coping, so we will send you that and that many people to help you, humanitarian aid'. I do not remember that being the case. And there has been a lot of criticism of the European Union, that why is nobody doing anything here? So I think... how it should be and how it actually is, well, it could be very different.

M: Thank you very much. A lot of serious things here, I should not forget something. Yes. For now let's continue with this question. I don't know, LTFG3_F4, you are raising your hand, right?

LTFG3_F4: Yes. So I think the migrant crisis... migrants is a whole different topic. As exactly how I understood the question, your question was well... it's like a natural... what nature does, right? That's what I wanted to mention, the Solidarity Fund of the European Union, well, which also helps financially. It's just that countries should then apply for support and really, well, for example, if there is a fire, if schools burn down or something, if the roads are damaged by an earthquake, then well, the European Union provides that funding. But migrants are a different matter.

M: LTFG3_M2, what do you think about a natural disaster?

LTFG3_M2: I'm just thinking that maybe we need to invest some money at least in a... I don't know how to say it - prevention of natural disasters. For example, of course there's not much you can do about an earthquake, but I don't know, at least I think those fires can be managed somehow. Whether by digging up ditches, whether by regularly carrying out analysis in that area, because of the dryness, I don’t know. But just maybe sometimes you have to look to the future and take some measures like that, rather than just to wait for a disaster to happen and then to think what to do about it. It would maybe be cheaper that way, just like that. Well, then again, maybe the same communication would be needed, there should be maybe some, I don't know how to say it, plans written down, what, what is done in such cases that are not, that... so that a country, for example, well, the country that is helping another country, let's say, people don't have, I don't know, well, if there are questions, there would be answers. Why... where the money is going, what is going to be done in the other country. That's it. But anyway, there maybe should be more prevention, that kind of thing.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M1, are you raising your hand again or it was left here?

LTFG3_M1: It's left here.

M: Oh, ok. How would you say individual countries in the European Union should react? In one of them is having such a disaster?

(short pause)

LTFG3_F4: (I think it depends)

LTFG3_F6: (Can you repeat the question?)

M: LTFG3_F6, I repeat for. How should individual countries of the European Union, well, not institution, but individual countries of the European Union, how should they react if one of them is having such a disaster?

LTFG3_F4: I think it depends whether it's a neighbouring country or whether it's one at the other end. I think when those are neighbouring countries, well, the problem is the closest. And then they should provide the help that they can. Whether it is helicopters, whether it is services. Because if it is close to the border, if there is a need for capacity, I think that's it. Well, those services start communicating and there is no question of whether to provide help or not. Or if someone goes missing at the border, right, both Lithuanian and Latvian services are called into action. It is most relevant for neighbouring countries.

M: Thank you. What others think?

LTFG3_F6: Yes, I will agree too. When there was a river flood in central-southern Europe, in the Balkans, and there were from all the surrounding countries, there were forces and equipment mobilised. People were being helped where they needed to be helped, they were being moved out of their collapsed, flooded settlements and so on. It is just those states, I think, that are nearby, that are neighbours, they are always helping. Just unconditionally. And the ones further away, where, say, if there is... if we talk about what happens in Italy during the eruption of Etna, whether Norway or Finland send their forces, that's another... another question. But the solidarity... it is certainly shown in terms of money. And in terms of human resources a... those more distant states also help in individual cases. I think.

M: Yes. Anyone would like to add?

LTFG3_F5: I can. I mean, like LTFG3_F4 said, it's very important to help those neighbouring countries, because anyway, it's close to us and we might be affected by the event. But I also think that if we can give that help to another country, so to speak, and maybe in the future, they will reciprocate. And just that kind of spreading of goodness, I could call it. That we have to help everybody if we can give that help. Or at least make some contribution.

M: How would you say, maybe some countries in the European Union should do a bit more than others?

(short pause)

LTFG3_M3: Can you repeat or clarify the question?

M: Maybe some countries of the European Union should do more than others? In the case of a natural disaster in one of the countries?

LTFG3_M3: So I asked the question, I will answer it then. I would say maybe yes. But yes, of course, I will explain my idea straight away. I think there needs to be an understanding that we are all, well, we are all - these countries are all in the same boat. In the sense that if one gets wet, then probably everybody is going to get wet right away. But on the other hand, we also need rationality. That if I need... well, here, to make analogy with friends and with people. If I need a friend's help, I'd rather call a friend in neighbourhood, than call someone from another town 300 kilometres away to help me. Well, in the sense of a ration... from a rational perspective. That there should be the understanding of that intention {that help is needed}, but to look at it from a practical point of view. So if, if it is possible to organise something better through one country or two countries helping, then why not do it? Of course, then, afterwards, we would have to think somehow how to compensate to that country or something else.

[01:00:36]

M: Thank you. What others think?

LTFG3_M2: I just think that financially strong countries can support other countries, you know, where a natural disaster has happened, financially. And neighbouring countries... well, it depends. If it's a financially strong country, it supports financially. If it's weak financially, it supports with human resources, that's it. I don't know what else. Well, maybe there should be an obligation for those financially strong countries just in case of a disaster.

M: Thank you. Would there be any other comments here? A, how should Lithuania react? What could be Lithuania's contribution?

LTFG3_F4: To clarify the question: what would be Lithuania's contribution, say, if there is a natural disaster in Latvia?

M: In any European Union country, right?

LTFG3_F4: Mh. I mean, of course, if it's a neighbouring country, then you have to contribute what you can. Whether it's forces that, well, if there is a need for additional capacity. And of course, a... financially, I don't think so. Because, after all, this is a European Union fund, so I don't think that Lithuania would provide that funding from its own resources. It would still be, well, the European Union, support provided from the whole of that unit. So Lithuania as Lithuania could just contribute human resources, if necessary.

M: Thank you. What others think?

LTFG3_M1: I also agree about human resources. But also, maybe not only could Lithuania support financially, but also let's say a... I don't know, from the production side. At least, for example, if there is a need for some equipment, I don't know, or for example, because of the, I don't know, because of the pandemic, there was an example when some companies were just sewing these, at least, fabric masks. So, well, maybe we can just support with something like that, from the production side, just something. Like this.

M: LTFG3_F6? I don't know, I see you are connecting, disconnecting? [laughs]

LTFG3_F6: No, I just want to agree that Lithuania is also doing that, that they are sending some kind of technical assistance, like paragliders or some kind of technical machinery, like big cars or trucks or something. Which could help at that time the country that is facing a disaster.

M: Here is a very specific question. If a crisis management team were to be sent to that affected country, right, say, firefighters, doctors, do you think Lithuania should do that and who should cover the cost of such help?

LTFG3_F4: If there was a need, I think it should, and the European Union would cover the costs.

M: Why do you think, not Lithuania?

LTFG3_F4: I'm not sure, but just a guess, it could be that there are some joint agreements that have been signed in writing and that the neighbouring countries of the European Union have to provide that, there is cooperation and they have to provide the assistance. But that seems to be self-evident, because the European Union as a unit simply does not have its own bases somewhere, I suppose, where there would be additional help. That extra help can come from neighbouring countries, then.

M: But you mean the European Union would have to cover the cost of such assistance?

LTFG3_F4: I think so.

M: LTFG3_F6, what do you think?

LTFG3_F6: A... it is also foreseen in the budget, these... funds for disasters like natural disasters and so on. And they are allocated and they are made up of both the funds collected by Lithuania itself and the money from the European Union funds. And I think that says a lot. [laughs]

M: LTFG3_M3, I see you raise your hand?

LTFG3_M3: Well, I'm going to put a little [smiles] reflection here. That, well, we talk a lot about money here, about money. But when we talk about people, when we talk about going to put out fires, we need to understand that people are not just money. You are going to put the fire out, not to water the flowers, you go to put out the fire, where they can die and so on. And then there should be a question of values. For the sake of your citizens, for the sake of other people's lives. That... that... when is it worth dying for another? Who can that other be? And so on. I would say this is just a deeper question. And depends from what perspective. From the perspective of a nation, maybe it's not really worth sending somebody somewhere. From the point of view of neighbouring countries, from the point of view of shared history, for example, you want to help your neighbour somewhere. From the European Union's point of view, of course, we are all in the same boat and need to help. I would say it is a very complex issue. But, but... and on a theoretical level, when we deal with these problems, there can be a lot of all kinds of things. Well, of course, it would be good if we helped each other. Because it gives not only, not only do we guarantee something to others, but we will also get a guarantee. At least from this side.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M1?

LTFG3_M1: I'd like to say something similar too. I don't really have any idea who should finance it, because here, as my colleague said before, it depends on all sorts of obligations, financial obligations, all sorts of contracts and all sorts of regulations and something else. Maybe I, and I do not know how things work there. But maybe I can imagine how I would like it to be. That... or at least some simplified version, that well, there is some money in Lithuania at the moment, and if we can, that money, and I don't know where it came from, from funds, from taxes, something else, it's just, if we do have it, and it came, as it was mentioned here, the funds that are reserved maybe for such things, we just, as much money as we have, as much as we can donate, and those resources, and human resources, and whatever you can think of, we just send that much to that country. And that whatever we can send, we send. To the extent that our system remains sustainable. If you send it and our system collapses, what good that would be? But... well, and I would love it if it worked in such a way that we send, and then when we have an earthquake here, that everybody sends us the same way, whatever they can. But the world doesn't always work as nicely as I imagine it would.

M: Do you feel that you personally have a duty to help in the event of such a disaster in one of the European Union countries?

LTFG3_F4: Well, we are taxpayers, so one way or another [laughs] our taxes go to the European Union to some extent. Because these are still public institutions, employees, so I think partly yes.

M: Thank you. What about others?

LTFG3_F6: I think yes. Often people are asked to donate their money to this and that. When disasters happen, like, well, donate to, say, Croatia, and I think I personally would do that, and donate and contribute. But as LTFG3_F4 said, we contribute by paying [laughs] our share of the VAT {probably meaning income tax}. And well, if I were a medic or a fireman, firefighter, whatever, I would probably want to go and help. With physical work.

M: Any other thoughts? Aha, LTFG3_M1.

[01:10:01]

LTFG3_M1: Well... Oh, sorry [adjusts microphone]. Well, here it's not, it's not very clear to me, clear, well, like, a question maybe, because it very much depends {on} what the duty means. It seems to me that what colleagues have said here with the fact that we pay taxes here, it seems to me that we have a duty to pay taxes in that case. And it does not mean that we have to go somewhere there. If I am a fireman who pays taxes, then I have done my duty and then I go and watch the series after work. And... that would be a duty. And maybe I look at myself as, for example, an ordinary person who is just there doing his job, there studying or doing something. And do I have a duty to go out there and help those, those people? I don't think I have that duty. I may feel from my values, or from my desire to do something, that I see that I have the ability and the will and the capacity to help. But I would not call it a duty. Maybe, maybe it's something like a duty, but well... I don't know about that, I would have to think about it better [smiles]. But I wouldn't say it's a duty at first sight.

LTFG3_M2: I also think it's interesting, the position of LTFG3_M1 in this question, because actually it's easy to talk like that in front of a computer [smiles], in a discussion. But if a disaster really happened, it's really hard for me to imagine how the same human resources would work. For example, maybe the same country that has had a disaster, maybe they have the human resources and, well, maybe that would just be enough. And from my side, well, it is, as he said, that one of those duties is to pay taxes. And as for, let's say, taking risks, maybe also helping people in case of an emergency, that is more of a willingness than a duty. I don't know how. But, yeah, I mean, it's just hard to assess it that way, and if I was actually in a similar situation, maybe I would actually do things differently [smiles]. So here... Yeah.

M: I'm going to go back a little bit to a couple of moments that came up at the very beginning of this situation. Now, LTFG3_M1, when you mentioned, I don't know, I think somebody first mentioned "sense of community", right, and then you brought up a hesitation, right, on how much of sense of community there is in the European Union, and the question of a common identity. Could you elaborate a little bit, could you, right, and could others also think about how you see that sense of community in the European Union?

LTFG3_M1: Well, I can't say that I have a very strong opinion or that I'm very deeply into this issue. I took a course in international relations at the university here. And there we were interested, there they told us about these things. And there was the idea put forward that the European Union does not have some strong united identity. And I think, on the face of it, that this is true. That, for example, how much, how much there is some kind of single identity? What is it that binds together the Norwegians, the English, the Spanish, someone else who is somewhere closer, like Greece? Well, there are incredible, incredible differences, cultural and all. And what we have most in common is that we are perhaps an economic block and geographically somehow. Culturally, I don't think so, there are very strong differences. Apart from where I brought up that "West" at the beginning. I would perhaps put that very much in quotation marks, that the “West” is very socially constructed and if you had a closer look at it, there is no such thing, in my opinion.

M: How do others see this sense of community in the European Union?

LTFG3_F6: Well, I had this... I just had this thought that even though these different countries with their, I don't know, different values, and just different, we're still, like, on the same team, let's call it, when we're in the European Union, that somehow we're still able to be in the same circle, so to say. Maybe with our own values or when, I don't know, you sign some kind of treaty [smiling], you agree to all those commitments and just that, despite those differences, we are still somehow trying to find that middle ground to be together and, I don't know, friendly.

M: LTFG3_F4?

LTFG3_F4: It's like every organisation, every company, the same way the European Union has common goals and values. Maybe even a mission. Probably a mission too, but I know for sure that it has goals, the values. That's what gives that sense of commonality (OL: bendrumas), that we know that the values are democracy, equality, freedom, dignity. And well, that's what unites us and gives us a sense of dignity... [smiles] not a sense of dignity, a sense of community.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M1?

LTFG3_M1: I would maybe just second LTFG3_F4, that she very rightly said that in a company, for example, when I'm working in a company, let's say, I'm working in a company, and that company has a purpose, which is to do something without doing some, if it's a good company, without doing some horrible things there. To pay people normally so that they can live a decent life, and so on, so that they can, well, be happy, satisfied. But that doesn't mean that we have some kind of common identity with the employees that we work with. I think that is a good example, just not in the sense as she meant.

M: LTFG3_M3?

LTFG3_M3: On the sense of community, here too I understand that on the one hand, it is a big international organisation from all countries. All the countries are like with... agreed, made a promise, so to speak, that I am in this organisation and I'm pursuing, and we're all pursuing together certain goals, our values and so on. But on the other hand, still, we are all... everybody is quite local, with their own local problems, which always seem to be closer. And in fact, their... and that's where this rather dualistic view of the whole reality comes from. That on the one hand you're part of something big, or not part of something big, but like all together, but also all separate. And I think that thing, the togetherness is very individual. Like people's sense of togetherness, like maybe the attitude of some organisation or state. And I think that that togetherness varies a lot depending on the level we are talking about. It's not on one level, it is not one level, that togetherness.

M: And what do you think, LTFG3_M3, at which level there is most or least of that togetherness? What is your own feeling?

LTFG3_M3: M... (short pause) I might skip this question for now, to think about it at least. It's hard to say. Because, well, I think that ordinary people don't feel enough of a sense of togetherness, at least from the Lithuanian perspective. Because we are mostly talking about OUR problems, our problems. And how to get out of them. But that sense of togetherness should be, I think, greater in some unions, like scientists' unions and so on, where they are expanding and influencing some kind of one big apple, which is not only one country.

M: Thank you very much. I see you're raising your hand, LTFG3_M1.

LTFG3_M1: Yes. Here again I hope I'm not talking too much, but I was thinking that it's quite an important example of that togetherness that, well, that togetherness, is just maybe I'm thinking of our common history. About that story that we tell ourselves and believe. And that story is not necessarily true. But as an example, for example, in Lithuania we have, we have some common history of the LGD, some kind, that we are linked by a common language, we have a common history of the whole region of Lithuania today, and so on. Or in America there is some kind of 'Oh, we are the benchmark of democracy here and that we are the most free here and blah blah blah'. And not necessarily that story is somehow true, but it is a story that a lot of people believe in that community. And I think that it is what the European Union lacks, some kind of common story that is believed in. Maybe that is what I mean.

M: Thank you. Oh, we've expanded a lot here. So I'm moving now [laughs] to another situation. If an economic crisis like the one that happened in 2008-2009, which is what we call the euro crisis, were to happen again. And some European countries, European Union countries, were particularly adversely affected, or more adversely affected than others, how should Lithuania react? In the event of a severe economic crisis in one of the countries of the European Union?

[01:20:04]

LTFG3_F6: I would like to start then. I'll start by talking about now, when there was a crisis, a mini-crisis, also an economic crisis, during the pandemic. And when the European countries wanted to take loans too, and subsidies, well, a big one, billions. Lithuania, of course, got a big bite. However, several countries refused to provide support and to contribute. Now I cannot tell you which ones [smiles], it sounds stupid. But there are those who say 'No' and 'We are not contributing'. And then we cancel everything, and you plan it all over again. Am... Meanwhile, about Lithuania, if we have another crisis, I think we should take into account our economic capacity. That is where the togetherness (OL: bendrystė) disappears. When it is difficult, everybody {wants to} get out of the puddle dry. What is... Well, but that's the reality. Because there is no common market... well, in the sense of a common economy, as one country - so the whole of the European Union, there is only a common market. Each country is fighting for itself. So Lithuania should, I think, take into account itself and not suffer as it did in the crisis of 2008. That's it. I think so.

M: LTFG3_M3?

LTFG3_M3: Well, first of all, each country gives guarantees to its own citizens. For their security and for all kinds of good things in life. And that really the relationship between their commitments to their citizens and their commitments to [smiles] the organisation as a whole is quite interesting, I really think. But I think that, as in every situation, you have to somehow use common forces and cold reason to deal with it. It depends on what the consequences of each action will be. If the rescue will help everyone to sail out, why not? But if to make too big a contribution and Lithuania will need the same help... then.... What was the purpose of that help then? To need help ourselves right away? That's the kind of... I think we should discuss this together and think about the whole picture [smiles], I would say.

M: Thank you. What other, what would opinions be?

LTFG3_M2: I don't really know how these crises form in certain countries. Well, maybe those financial crises are not so clear to me. And I just... Well, I don't know whether it's the economic system that's to blame here, whether it's capitalism, so to speak, that causes these crises. And then somehow the idea that every country stands for itself. So I have this feeling that there should be no such thing as a crisis at all. There should be no such thing. Because it is like a lottery that our economy is built on such foundations that, say, a country is picked out like this, and then, after a few years, it has, say, a financial crisis, and now it has to dig itself out of it, and then we have to look for help, say, to overcome that financial crisis. If I have a good idea of how that happens. I mean, it just seems to me to be such a silly phenomenon. But at the moment, I don't even know how to solve it. I just think that such a thing, such a thing should not exist, because, well, I don't know, to me... just [laughs] I don't have much to say, but it's just such a strange phenomenon which, I don't know, I wouldn't want that it ever happened. It shouldn't be like that for any country.

M: Thank you. What other thoughts would you have how should Lithuania behave in the event of a major economic crisis in some other European Union country?

(long pause)

M: Then maybe an additional question - do you think that Lithuania's reaction should be somehow different, again, depending on which country the crisis is in? Where there was a strong impact of the crisis?

(short pause)

LTFG3_F4: It could be that the closer the country, the bigger the impact. Or the same supply. If that country supplies something to us, or we to them, then maybe {to give} some kind of exemption. If we provide some products to that country, then facilitate conditions. Also financially maybe. But should certainly react in some way. Well, the European Union is based on economics and politics. So finance should be regulated in some way.

M: LTFG3_M3?

LTFG3_M3: First of all, I would like you to repeat the question again, because I understood that whether they have to react differently depending on the geographical location of the country? Is there any second point there? Repeat the question.

M: But, but, well, let's say, whether it's geographical or something else, right, would Lithuania's reaction be different depending on what country it happened in? So it's up to you to decide what you, what comes to your mind when you think about whether, what would the differences be? Should there be at all?

LTFG3_M3: I don't know. [laughs] It could be different. Especially if somebody remembers some of the problems that were there in the historical period with other countries. But {if to think how} it should be, I think there shouldn't be any difference. I'm going to go back to my rational mind idea [smiles] that you just have to calculate everything and that's it.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M1.

LTFG3_M1: I would go back to my [smiles] idealism that I would like it very much that just regardless of the geographical positions or whatever, that just if we have some opportunity to do something, that if we have the resources, and that we allocate those resources in a way that doesn't, that doesn't wreck our system or doesn't negatively affect us too much. Maybe not negatively at all. It would just slow down growth or something like that. I think, whether it is Spain, or England, or whatever, or Poland. And even maybe regardless of some political disagreements there, as long as that country is not some kind of malignant country that wants... to take over Lithuania or do some other things that are negative. So I would very much like to see that there is the principle that we give what we can and they give us what they can.

M: If the crisis were to have a very strong negative impact on Lithuania, how should other EU countries react?

(short pause)

LTFG3_F4: If those countries are not affected as well, then give those exemptions. Well, if they are supplying something, as I said, then at least somehow they should... make that supply as easy as they can.

(short pause)

M: What others think about it?

(short pause)

LTFG3_F6: Are we talking about Lithuania here or just?

M: Yes. If Lithuania is affected, how should other countries react, behave?

LTFG3_F6: Oh, yeah, so shortening the connection... No. I'm sorry, I said it wrong [laughs]. Just like LTFG3_F4 said, I would also... and and and... I have no idea really what should do. Because, in reality, we manage crises by borrowing from the European Central Bank as well. I have no idea what other countries could do to contribute to, say, reducing the crisis in Lithuania. I have no idea.

M: Thank you. Any other thoughts?

(short pause)

M: If, say, Lithuania received financial support from other countries, do you think we would have to obey certain restrictions and rules that come with that support?

[01:30:06]

LTFG3_M2: Well, I think we need to assess whether or not that support is so necessary that we would have to [smiles] obey those rules, let's say. Still, I think there are some limits. But, well, looking at the situation, I think it is possible to bend to certain requirements. It's just, well, you have to look at the situation.

M: Thank you. What the others think?

LTFG3_F5: It depends on the situation. What would be, I don't know, those restrictions or commitments, then - why are they necessary, if you're giving that support and you want to help, and you're, I don't know, restricting? It's just to help. But yeah, maybe take into account what those restrictions are and why. And then - is it worth it for us to accept the support?

M: Thank you. LTFG3_F6.

LTFG3_F6: I mean, I would think that if there is a willingness to get out of the economic crisis as soon as possible, then... and the aim is to get the maximum economic benefit, then I think the requirements should be respected. And to comply with them.

M: I don't know, LTFG3_M1, are you raising your hand or is there a hand icon left again?

LTFG3_M1: No, I'm raising my hand.

M: Please.

LTFG3_M1: So it is not quite clear to me, is it a question that once we've received the support, and we have to fulfil the commitments that came with that support, or can we reject them if the commitments are too bad?

M: Well, then it would probably mean that we should not take the support either, right. That is, if the support comes with commitments, right, we have to accept them, obey them.

LTFG3_M1: So it's already there that we get the support and we already have those commitments?

M: Yes, let's say there's a condition "You will get this support, but let's say, you can't, I don't know, increase the funds for something this year" or something like that. You can...

LTFG3_M1: I don't know, very, probably again... First of all, if the conditions are absurd, maybe they shouldn't have been accepted. But if we've already accepted them, well, unless they're something that would cause tragic, tragic damage, then it would probably be, I don't know, fair, I don't know if fair is a good word, but we should probably listen to them, apply them. But I think if they are absolutely, if we desperately needed that aid, and if we didn't get it, our country was falling apart or something else terrible, and we took it, we didn't even look at the conditions there, and then it turned out that the conditions there were somehow completely absurd, I think probably not, I would probably say, were very hugely damaging, or if they were against some categorically important principles, then I think it would be morally fair not to comply to them.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M3?

LTFG3_M3: Well, obviously these are such abstract questions, so I'll answer in an abstract way too. I think that one should look at all the pros and cons and take, choose the solution that would be the best solution for, well, we're talking about Lithuania, so about... the best solution for the Lithuanian people, for Lithuanian citizens. That is, what would bring the most benefit to the people. Especially when there is a situation like a crisis and so on, when, when anything can happen.

M: Thank you. Well, let's move to the last situation. Again, we know, we notice that there are inequalities between countries, right, as well as inequalities between people within countries. Do you think that the European Union should have some kind of common programme or fund to reduce these social inequalities? For example, in regard to growing income gap in society and so on? Specifically at the European Union level, some kind of fund or programme to address this issue? (short pause) LTFG3_F6?

LTFG3_F6: For some reason, I think it's up to each member state. Perhaps there should be directives at the European Union level on what principles should be followed in order to reduce that poverty. And just leave all that work to the state itself. With... sovereignty [smiles]. But not at the European Union level.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M3, did you mean to say something?

LTFG3_M3: Oh, yes. I think it would be very {good} [smiles] if there was {such a program}. Or maybe there is partly already, I don't know everything. But the other question is, of course, how, how would other countries react to it, who would probably put more money into that anyway. But I think that those, that reduction of inequalities, could contribute a lot to the well-being of all those countries.

M: Thank you. What others think? Yes, LTFG3_M1.

LTFG3_M1: I think LTFG3_F6 has touched on the subject very accurately here, that the point is, well, that everybody, probably everybody agrees that... inequality needs to be reduced. It's just a fundamental question of whether it should be done at the European Union level or at the national level. So perhaps the best thing to do there is to look at what the economic studies and empirical data say. But it seems to me, at first sight, that simply - the more money the better. And it would be good that perhaps it could be that the European Union has some kind of basic, minimum, well, fund that it gives to a country if it, well, so that it can achieve some basic things, like a minimum wage of some percentage of the average wage, for example. And then, as LTFG3_F6 said, that at the national level, that it could already, according to its own needs and its own resources and all the other things, then look at how to do it for the country itself. But here I think we should look empirically at how to best reduce inequalities.

M: Thank you. I don't know, LTFG3_M2, LTFG3_F4, what do you think?

LTFG3_M2: [smiles] I don't really have much to say on that.

M: Got it. LTFG3_F4.

LTFG3_F4: Can you repeat the question again?

M: We know that there is this inequality, right, both between the countries and between people within countries. Right. And do you think there should be some kind of programme or fund at the European Union level to reduce those social inequalities?

LTFG3_F4: Yes. I think even now there are those programmes. Especially there is a lot of talk about LGBTQ+ all these things. And certainly there are programmes and... I'm not sure about the funds, but about the programmes, I know for sure, and some decisions are being taken, especially this year. Well, it's quite... last year, this year, this year, [smiles] current year, it's quite loudly talked about. It is ecology, it is LGBT topics [smiles] that are loudly talked about in the European Union and certain decisions are being taken. So I think that this is already being done and social inequalities are being regarded and, well, the uniformity, not uniformity, how shall I put it here, m... well, so that everybody feels that they are equal citizens of that country. So I think that is certainly being taken into account already.

M: Well, LTFG3_F5, do you have anything else to add?

LTFG3_F5: It's just maybe my opinion is that I would agree with LTFG3_F4 that, that there should be, like, a reduction in inequality and that, I don't know, like, the LGBT community, like, they have the right to express themselves too, I don't know, like, maybe for them, like... I don't know, at the moment, let's say that they're seeking for equality, if we can say that, so that maybe there could be some kind of a fund or support, where the European Union would give it, and they could just, I don't know, it would be better for them [smiles].

M: A little bit on another aspect. Should the European Union have a European level programme to tackle unemployment in all countries, funded by all European Union member states?

[01:39:41]

LTFG3_M2: Yes, I think there should be a programme like that. Because well, it's really important that the same fi... proper financial provision, for example, for human development. That's how to say, it's just that when somehow people live more affluent, let's say, on average at least, then somehow people have more time and more leisure time. For example, for parents to be with their children. And not so that you have to work double time just to provide children... at least with the essentials. So I think that it is needed to at least financially support, well, those poor, more poor, families that are poorer. And maybe that is, I think, being done. It's just that the same unemployment, well, I think, should be encouraged, there is now this very convenient platform for temporary work, Workis, I work myself. It's very useful, too, just when you have free time and to have an income and just like that. I think that programmes like that would help people a lot just to get a job, somehow. I don't know. It's just better for the economy and better for the person, and then, well, how can I say, and the family can live more freely. Just.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M3.

LTFG3_M3: I would be in favour of such joint solutions. Well, that it would go from the whole European Union. Just one thing [smiles] is important, that the community is not... well, that common solution would take into account the requirements of each individual culture and each individual people {keeping in mind the differences}. What works in one culture will not work in another. But I'm all for solving problems together.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M1?

LTFG3_M1: Well, if I understand the question correctly, that Europe, well, that it is Europe that would deal with reducing unemployment? Something like that?

M: Yes.

LTFG3_M1: I don't know, I think again I would look at it as a rather pointless thing. Because that reduction of work, I would say the opposite to what LTFG3_M2 said. Just because everybody has a job doesn't mean that they have time for children or anything else. For example, those jobs that would be created, for example, in the European Union, what if they are dreadful jobs, where the pay is very low, where the conditions are very poor? Everybody has a job like that. So I don't think it would be a good thing here to have 0%... well, of unemployment, but everybody has a dreadful job. And I would say that maybe if there is unemployment but there is a good social net or some kind of social guarantees, they could just give people more time for things that... that are important to them. And at that time they could look for a job which is good, and which pays well, and which respects people. And I think this is not, an ambiguous question. Are the jobs that are being created worthless, are they, like, bad.

M: Any additional thoughts?

LTFG3_F6: Yeah, so I think there should again be European Union directives to encourage the qualification of staff, of people to do high value-added work. How they can be trained as much as possible and educated. And simply to have such directives and to encourage member states to use them. But I do not think it should be the same for everyone. It is just that they should be adapted to each country, and that part of the population that is not employed, they should simply be well qualified and applied to the high added value labour market.

M: Ah, a related question. If there is high unemployment in one country, right, in one country, should the European Union try to reduce it? In one country in particular? Or in several countries individually?

LTFG3_F6: Yeah, then I would also think that either the European Parliament or one of its institutions, taking into account the level of unemployment in that country, should then look at its... market, what... what works are mostly done and what businesses are being developed. And simply educate and qualify people in that direction. And to adapt them to the same {aforementioned} labour market. And encourage them to go to work.

M: What others think?

LTFG3_M2: I actually kind of think that... Well, I was saying that it's good to reduce unemployment. But on the other hand, it depends on the person's own situation. Well, for example, I have a relative who is not working because he is an alcoholic. He gets [smiles] that benefit, so to speak, and that is enough for him. And to force him to work somewhere now, I don't know, it's just that he doesn't have that much health. He works when he can. And he just chooses, let's say, that job himself. It's more of a simpler one. At people’s, just, you know, how to say, chopping the same wood. And that's also, I mean, that would be a question... well, I don't know, maybe... On the other hand, maybe some people shouldn't be forced to work. Or it has to be a very, how shall I say, flexible schedule work, I don't know. Like just that there's a certain amount of hours worked in a month and I just don't know. Maybe some people don't need to be forced to work [smiles].

M: How do others feel about it, right, that the European Union should somehow solve the problem of unemployment in one country? Mh, LTFG3_F6.

LTFG3_F6: I will second LTFG3_M2, well, I don't think it's about forcing to work. It's just about how to promote the employment of those people. It's how to encourage them to be interested in work. And encourage them to work. But not to force. Because forcing is a very difficult [smiles] thing in itself. And it is just needed to, as I say, train, qualify them, and I think by giving them some new knowledge about the labour market and how to use this or that technology, they themselves would just want some... a little bit more work. And contribute to society.

M: LTFG3_M3?

LTFG3_M3: I'm going to correct a little bit the look of LTFG3_M2. Well, I'll second him, I don't know. I will say that it may also be a question of not forcing but giving the opportunity to work. Also. Because often unemployment is not because you don't want to be employed, but because the current situation doesn't give you a lot of good options. There is this thing. It's... and for my part I would say that I think that yes, the common forces of the European Union should help one country with that. But of course it also depends on [smiles] costs and everything, but in terms of ideas, in terms of idealism, it should.

M: And should Lithuania, say, contribute to reducing unemployment in some other European Union country, even if, again, it would mean that, well, Lithuania would have to incur some additional costs?

LTFG3_F6: I think they should help if they could. I don't know how those extra costs, like... I know that, say, in the Labour Exchange there are maybe some classes, where I don't know, where somebody is giving some classes, so even with these, say, Lithuanians could help another country, I don't know, by giving some kind of seminars. Well, it's just kind of an example. But let's say, if there is a possibility, if we can, then even if there are funds, we could just help.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M1?

LTFG3_M1: I'm not very good at economics, but I would say that taxes could be used for this purpose. Maybe linking to the other question. That there are some funds, for example, from the European Union, and we pay into those funds whatever we can, either as a percentage or according to some things. And then those funds could be distributed according to the situation. Because I think, for example, that no... it wouldn't be very logical for Lithuania to decide on its own to give to that country specifically to reduce unemployment. Well, because unemployment is not... is a different situation from some climate catastrophe, or some financial crisis, or something else. That it is just a constant thing. And if it's a financial crisis, then maybe we need to help. But if it is just, just - let's start reducing unemployment there in England. Well, that England is a very bad {example} because of Brexit. Let's say France. So in that sense I don't think that {Lithuania} should reduce unemployment. I think it would be much better to distribute it centrally. But again, it's not that we should just take that unemployment and reduce it, but that we should set up some good social programmes, or even work programmes. But just to reduce unemployment is not automatically a good thing.

[01:50:41]

M: Thank you. Would there be any comments in agreement or in addition, maybe in opposition?

(short pause)

M: Okay. Then... Aha, LTFG3_M3.

LTFG3_M3: I think yes, it should help... should kind of help. Of course, as colleagues have said, in a somewhat regulated way, some percentage or something. Based on GDP and so on. But let's look at the reality - it wouldn't be us who would be really helping somebody, because it would probably be us they would be helping [laughs].

M: Thank you. Well. We're moving towards the end, right, and those kind of couple of closing questions. We have actually discussed with you today various areas related to the European Union, say those social inequalities or the economy. Perhaps there are other areas that you think are important in terms of relations and mutual support within the European Union?

(long pause)

M: Mh, LTFG3_M1.

LTFG3_M1: Well, I don't know if this counts as an area that you have in mind, but maybe the problem in the European Union, maybe you could say that, and with a lot of the communities in general in recent years, it's just a lot of fragmentation and a lot of distrust of each other and of the community itself. It is the same with NATO and the European Union. That there are a lot of these Euro-sceptic tendencies in Europe that are emerging. And I think also the trends on the far right are related to that. And we see this, this thing coming up in many places. And I think, and I don't know if this is purely what you are asking about, but I think this is an aspect that is quite important. And it is quite problematic the further we go.

M: Thank you. Maybe, like, what else could be, you know, very important for the relationships in the European Union, right, in addition to what we have discussed? For mutual support?

(short pause)

LTFG3_F6: It's maybe also to reconcile political views... political direction. As LTFG3_M1 mentioned that anti-NATO thoughts, Macron would like to have a separate European Union army and so on. But we have NATO. It's just a matter of consensus among the leaders of the major countries and a common direction, both political and economic, that doesn't change with the people who change with the terms of office. I think so.

M: What else could be important? Mh, LTFG3_M3.

LTFG3_M3: I would say to communicate specifically to the public. To the public, to the societies, about what it is that everybody, all those countries are collectively aiming for and why those aims are good. Because if, if those people... those views are a priori good, it doesn't mean that everybody understands them that way. What a plumber understands, well, not necessarily is what a lawyer understands, and vice versa. There is a need for communication.

M: I don't know, LTFG3_F4, do you have any other thoughts on what else could be important for this mutual support and relations between us in the European Union?

LTFG3_F4: I don't have anything to add yet [smiles].

LTFG3_M2: I just want to add this to LTFG3_M3. Well, yeah, that communication is very important. Because people have a lot of questions, and sometimes it's hard to answer them, sometimes there are just no people who can answer them. And that's probably what people need, I think, just answers.

M: LTFG3_F6, I wanted to ask you something else. When you were saying just now, you mentioned that well - the majour countries should come to an agreement. What do you mean by majour countries and why majour countries?

LTFG3_F6: Yeah, it's the ones, the ones, let's say, the founding members, the big powers of the European Union, that contribute the most economically. A... Germany, France, Italy, Spain. Now, as I said, France, for example, stands out politically, speaking of its president. And with the change in the German government, in the chancellery, there is now also some difference of opinion. And the political em... the political currents are also going, have gone in slightly different directions than they have gone before. It's just that I would like there to be a consensus, a long-standing... long-term, that doesn't change when the leaders of each country change. And I would just like to see that kind of solidarity and... permanence. At least for me.

M: What do you mean when you say "I would like that solidarity"? What would that solidarity mean to you?

LTFG3_F6: A... I would like that if there is a change, let's say, I'll talk about the French example again. There is Le Pen, who is supportive, who is pro-Russian and who would like to have more friendship, better relations with Russia. So that if there is a change in that kind of... actors, if they came to power, that there would just be solidarity and that they would not go and change the direction of the Community {the EU} itself, as I said, politically, so that there would be one current and it would not change every five years, every four years. And that solidarity would be characterised by that. I think so.

M: Thank you. How do others feel, do you have some ideas about solidarity too?

(short pause)

M: Please.

LTFG3_M2: Well I don't know if I would answer about the notion of solidarity, but maybe I would retort to LTFG3_F6 on the notion of changing the government every few years, actually {not changing the direction} would make it much, much easier and improve efficiency and so on, with all kinds of economic and other things, but it happens very rarely. Well, in modern countries, in the European Union, {it's rare} that there is no change. That is just the price of democracy. And I think that for something to stay the same for a long time and permanently, there must be something very remarkable about it, which we rarely see. Or there has to be an authoritarian government, which, well, I don't support it [smiles]. So I don't know whether the solidarity that LTFG3_F6 mentioned, about having a stable government, is very realistic.

M: Thank you. Maybe there are some more comments in this, in this place? (short pause) How do you think all the topics that we have discussed relate to the future of Lithuania in the European Union?

(long pause)

LTFG3_M2: Are you asking, how it was related? Did, did...

M: Yes. We were discussing, again, some economic things, relations between countries, right, maybe the possibility of help in one crisis or another, right, or vice versa, why we might not be able to provide it. So, again, how do you see Lithuania's future in the European Union, in relation to that, or you do not have any doubts, despite all these nuances, about the future of Lithuania in the European Union, say? LTFG3_F4, I see you have switched on the microphone.

LTFG3_F4: Yes, for me it is related to the global, all-encompassing world. It's also LGBTQ+, all that ecological stuff, well, anyway, the green wave is very high now. So I'm just glad that Lithuania is moving step in step with these programmes. And like all other European countries... European Union countries. So I think it's only for the better. And it's good to see those positive developments.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M1?

LTFG3_M1: Well, I was maybe starting with the unambiguity {meaning the opposite, ambiguity}. And so, and here, sort of towards the end, I kind of mentioned that I think if there is going to be, here where we talked about all sorts of geographies... well, natural disasters or something like that, I think there would definitely be some support. But for something different, I doubt it. For example, about, say, economic support for unemployment or something. I mean, some kind of effective ones, those that I would like to see, that I think would be good for Lithuania, both economically and socially, I do not think there will be any of those. Except for the ones that are very, very necessary, like the geographical crisis, well, geographical is not the word, but you understand what I mean. And maybe what about Lithuania, well, what Lithuania could do for the European Union, what it will continue to do, I think, well, yes, it will do what it needs to do. These are the minimum obligations. I don't know if it's minimal, but it's... not like I'm making some kind of fantasy here that we're doing the best we can, and then they give us back everything they can. I don't think it's going to be more than minimal. As for the future, I think we'll remain in the European Union, even if it... Well, I think, in the conditions as it is now, I think it will stay that way. I just think there will be these tensions, like with, with that Euro-scepticism, with those far-right parties that we see, as I said before, slowly rising. And we are seeing it in Lithuania. Well, all the time there have been these like little, little knots of all those radžvilas's parties. But they are fragmented and they are not very numerous. But I, I am worried that they will grow more and more. And not only in Lithuania, but in Europe as a whole.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M3, what do you think?

LTFG3_M3: I would be grateful if you would repeat the question, because I have a technical problem.

M: How do you see, I mean, in the context of all that we have discussed, the future of Lithuania in the European Union?

LTFG3_M3: I would say that, well... Of course, as far as I can cover it and understand it, so far the European Union has given a lot of, well, a lot of... a lot of good things for Lithuania. A lot of. From the financing parts and so on. We can see how much, how much Lithuania has improved. But what will happen next? If you look [smiles], I would say, if that timetable remains the same, we will go up. I am looking at it pretty good. But again, the future is full of all sorts of challenges and it is difficult to predict what will happen. So here we are. I cannot say one thing, so I will say that, if it stays as it is now, I think it is good.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_F6, what do you think?

LTFG3_F6: Oh, I think that a... I think positively. That the European Union as a whole will survive and I hope it will only get stronger. Integrity will only increase. And I hope that Lithuania will be able to contribute more economically in the future. Not only by taking money, but also by giving it back. And thus contributing to the common European well-being. That's it.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M2.

LTFG3_M2: I think that Lithuania is doing quite well with, well, with some of the plans that it has set out and, let's say, with some of the plans there, I don't remember now, but it seems to me... well, there are still common goals between Lithuania and the European Union, let's say, for example, on the same environmental issues. There is still an effort to meet European standards in terms of pollution, in terms of cars and other things. And I think that Lithuania is doing quite well. Of course, it may be slow, but there is still that improvement in Lithuania. And I think that Lithuania, too, is benefiting, and will benefit, from the support of the European Union more than once. And and and maybe in the future it will also give something more from its side as well. Both to the European Union itself and to other countries. I am quite positive about that, too.

M: Thank you. And LTFG3_F5, do you have a comment too?

LTFG3_F5: It's just that I think that how it is now, it's good, so to speak, whether it's some projects going on where we are growing with the help of the European Union. So I think we will continue to grow with those projects. And economically we will improve, and I don't know, with the ecology in general, but we will contribute to that as much as we can. So here is the general idea that we will go hand in hand with the European Union. And that maybe, in a way, the idea that in the future we could somehow contribute more financially, because then maybe, I would say, that we then really, well, will be a stronger country than we are now. And that we could give more of that support.

M: Thank you. That's almost all. So one last comment, right, to sum it up. So what would be your conclusion, right, summary of this discussion we have had? I don't know, who would you like to start?

LTFG3_F4: Mh. It was interesting [smiles] to listen to myself a little bit, because, well, certain things actually became interesting even to myself, like whether there are certain European Union funds, whether countries have their own baskets, so that's just a little bit more of an incentive to look into it. But it was also interesting to hear other people's opinions.

M: Thank you. I don't know. LTFG3_F6.

LTFG3_F6: I would like second LTFG3_F4. It was fun to hear other people's opinions. Not just your own mindset. It was a fun conversation. It was a fun discussion.

M: I don't know, LTFG3_M3, how do you think we can summarise what we've talked about the European Union and us in it?

LTFG3_M3: I realised that there's a lot I don't understand, first of all. And the second thing is that the questions, although I don't really, I really like the questions, but some kind of context, where it's about a natural disaster, well, it doesn't really bring you into the situation, but still when we were trying to think about how to react, from different perspectives of what it should be like, how we would do it, and how we would do it even by ourselves, you can still feel that (short pause) the whole difficulty, how difficult it is to make it, well, how difficult it is to make the reality conform to that ideology, that ideality. And how to make it the way it should be when we have what we have now. It made to look from different perspectives. And it gave an understanding of the different sides of the problems.

M: Thank you. LTFG3_M1.

LTFG3_M1: Well, I would say that I think that the participants here seemed to have this rather rose-tinted view of the European Union. And I think it's not just... well, it's not just the wrong attitude, but it's harmful in general. And I would say that, perhaps, listening to me here, you might have got the impression that I'm very critical... I don't know, that I have a negative attitude. But that is not true, and it is just the opposite, that I am very, very strongly in favour of the European Union. And I particularly, well, I agree with a lot of its values, those values of enlightenment, perhaps, with science and freedoms, and I would add maybe equality. And maybe my negative comments here are more that when you love something you are open with that thing. Maybe that you're not afraid to admit that there is, that there is something wrong. That there are some things that need to be improved and changed. And I very much hope that we will move in a good direction in the future. And that we will solve those problems, and that they will not get worse and worse, as I think it is happening now.

M: Thank you very much. LTFG3_F5.

LTFG3_F5: I just enjoyed listening to those other opinions, because as I say, I don't have a lot of knowledge about the European Union, and I just... I know that I've picked up more knowledge than I had. And that maybe I should look into it, how things work, because I didn't know, and it made me a little bit interested. Like (short pause) I don't even know, just like the baskets, whether there are common European funds or whether it's Lithuania somehow, it was just interesting.

M: Thank you. And LTFG3_M2, your last comment.

LTFG3_M2: It was fun for me to hear other people's opinions. I liked the fact that there were people who could also criticise, let's say, the European Union, for example, LTFG3_M1 [smiles]. I liked that, of course, and... well, just, yeah, getting other people's opinion. So I realised that there are still a lot of unresolved issues, problems in the European Union. And it was interesting to imagine myself how I would behave in certain situations. So that's it.

M: Thank you. So I'm going to turn off the recording now and then we'll say goodbyes.