M: You all have a piece of paper in front of you and I would like you to write down the first three words that come to mind when you hear the term "EU". They may not necessarily be words, they may be some kind of concept.

M: Let's make a circle to start from ELFG2_M4 and read them.

ELFG2_M4: Money, Interests, Politics.

ELFG2_M3: Family, Support, Funding.

ELFG2_F2: European Parliament, NSRF {National Strategic Reference Framework (ΕΣΠΑ)}, Mitsotakis {current Greek Prime Minister}.

ELFG2_M1: Free movement of people and goods, France vs. Germany, Consolidation vs. Nation States.

M: Next, in the same order, I would like you to explain why you chose the specific words/concepts.

ELFG2_M4: I chose money because I think in general EU is more concerned with that, which in general it's all {linked} to Interests which is my second word, somehow, it's all about money (long pause). For politics (short pause) somehow I connect all three of them together.

ELFG2_M3: I chose family because everybody refers to the EU for family, there is a family. It is the support, one country with another, we saw it in the summer with the migrants, they came {from} other countries supported us and the funding that in all the non-developing countries {probably meaning underdeveloped countries}, there is support, either financial or all the EU interests.

ELFG2_F2: {I picked} European parliament because I have watched some speeches and they gave me the impression that something seemed to be going right. The NSRF because through some of these European programmes some countries are supported economically, unemployment is somewhat reduced, jobs are created. I put Mitsotakis because he has also been discussed a little bit recently, he has a more active presence [laughter] both positively and negatively, I would say.

ELFG2_M1: I put free movement of people and goods because it's a basic principle on which the European concept was built. I put France vs. Germany as a basic opposition that exists in the upper strata of the EU. I also put Unification vs. Nation States as an opposition that exists in the core and eastern states of the EU.

M: Thank you very much. Could you answer what being an EU citizen means to you? You can answer in any order you like.

ELFG2_M4: I kind of like it because there are many countries that I can travel to and it's easier for me to go and see the countries, their culture, their way of living and generally everything that an EU country can give me.

ELFG2_M3: Equal rights with any citizen living in an EU country. Equal rights, same freedom.

ELFG2_M1: The EU means for me free movement in EU countries, which is important, plus financial support to the Greek state in different moments that {need} have arisen. A parenthesis though, it is a privilege, but it should also apply to other people from other countries.

[00:10:35]

ELFG2_F2: I agree with ELFG2_M1, I consider myself privileged to be an EU citizen compared to other non-EU citizens.

M: How would you describe your overall position towards the EU?

[Repeat the question]

M: How do you describe your overall attitude towards the EU? Meaning, not based on any of your specific attributes, for example "I am a student and can travel through Erasmus, or that I am an employee and I get paid due to NSRF". How do you see the EU as a whole?

ELFG2_M3: I hesitate on some issues with the EU. One issue is financial. Since the change of currency in my country, I do not see any positive things in terms of the economy. Many of my fellow citizens have been destroyed since the euro came. Some others did much better, of course. Overall I did not like this part {of the EU}. However, there are also positive {aspects}. We can move freely in all EU countries, there are grants, there is support as I said before in the financial. There is {support} with acts, as when we experienced the immigration {meaning the incident in Evros}, they came, they supported Greece. My only difference is purely financial.

M: If one argued that Greece's membership in the EU is beneficial. What do you think are the privileges that Greece has gained from the EU? Please develop them.

(short pause) [Participants asked to repeat the question]

M: What do you think are the benefits that Greece has gained from joining the EU?

(long pause) [Participans asked to repeat the question]

M: If someone argued that Greece's participation in the EU is profitable, what do you consider to be the privileges it has won?

ELFG2_M3: Of course, I think that Greece has gained very important privileges. There have been given (short pause) has taken many political, geopolitical opportunities. Greece's voice is clearly heard in many countries in the EU, in terms of its ideas. The idea of ​​the European family, to hear the concerns of the country, the citizens of the country, to give (long pause) the citizens of the EU to listen to the concerns or ideas that Greece can give. I believe that Greece has received and GIVEN many things. I can also develop what Greece has given.

M: Of course.

ELFG2_M3: I will stay for a moment on the geopolitics, an area, the Aegean, the Ionian, the Mediterranean that all European countries would like, for political games, {and} for anything else a country can win where Greece is geopolitically located, as far as concerns this part.

M: ELFG2_M3 you talked about the European family before and now. Would Greece and all EU member states be willing to give more powers to the EU? For example, to have a common foreign policy or a common defense policy, not for each country to follow its own {policy}, but for the EU to decide on it.

ELFG2_M3: I do not consider it necessary for the EU to intervene in every country. I believe that every EU country should be called in and say, “I need help” if there is a political {he corrects himself}, a war issue, or if there is a part of {needed} support that concerns its problems. The country {should} freely express its problems and have support to the countries. I have said it and I will say it a third time that in the issues we had with the immigrants and the diplomatic games with Turkey, the EU does not intervene ‘because wants to’ There was a diplomatic communication from Greece to Europe, or that’s what we say, I can’t know what is going on behind and under the table. There was support, they came from the EU and countries that supported us, the same thing that Greece will clearly do. The same thing is done by France, which supports us with some ships, planes in this regard. Greece will clearly do the same when a problem is occuring in the North, in the West, in the East of the EU, that’s what I believe. I do not think that the EU should take such initiatives in ANY country. Each country should raise its issues, concerns in the European Parliament and make a decision.

[00:21:01]

ELFG2_F2: I agree with ELFG2_Μ3, I just wanted to add that yes we have the support and all that, but not without cost for us, we also give something to them.

M: ELFG2_M1, ELFG2_M4 would you like to add something?

ELFG2_M1: What I think Greece is getting from the EU is the use of credit credibility to access lending from international markets, an important one. Secondly, access to cash flows through grants, NSRF and so on, thirdly financial support, in or out of quotation marks, that happened during the financial crisis and that anyway even at the last minute, the Greek state was not allowed to become a failed state, so to speak. Fourthly, I think that Greece sees the EU as a place to promote its geopolitical interests and to seek allies on better terms to defend itself.

ELFG2_M4: I would agree with everyone else.

M: And now if one were to argue that Greece's membership of the EU was not profitable and had a negative impact, what would that be?

ELFG2_M3: What Greece has clearly not gained since joining the EU is {benefits by} the change of currency. I am of an age where I have caught up with both the drachma, {which} we had back then, and the Euro and I will give you some examples. The koulouri {Thessalonikis} the year the Euro was introduced and established, in the receipt was {written} for some time both the drachma and the Euro {price}. It was 50 drachmas. At the same time it reached half the Euro. Half a euro is 170 drachmas. 120% increase in just 5 minutes. But the money, the salary remained the same. I remember at that time my family, my father, for example, was earning 500 thousand drachmas, suddenly within two months everything you had put aside, everything you had saved was spent. And we were not the only ones to experience it, everyone experienced it, e.g. for a pack of cigarettes of 500 drachmas was not enough, {suddenly, it was} three euros, 500% increase, from 500 drachmas to a thousand. And now this is the same thing, petrol at 1.75 {euro}, the wage is the same, the wage remains the same. One of the things that the country did not gain or did not manage properly was the euro.

ELFG2_F2: I would agree with ELFG2_M3, I would just like to add that, possibly, we also bear responsibility as citizens in the part of the management of the Euro. Supposedly we left one currency, went to another, so there is essentially no point in dealing with the old currency. I think that our own management also plays a role in this on a personal level. Thank you.

ELFG2_M3: No citizen of Greece was asked to change their currency. We were never asked and when there was basically a political game 3-4 years ago, the answer of the Greeks was clear, the question is that it left sub-questions.

M: Now we move on to a hypothetical scenario. Let's say a natural disaster happens in another European country, define disaster as you like, flood, fire, earthquake. How do you think the EU should react?

(long pause)

M: [M explains the question] So what do you think should be done by the EU as a whole, and how should the EU respond.

ELFG2_M3: This scenario that you said, of a natural disaster, we are living it. One scenario is the coronavirus. It turned out that a lot of developing {he means developed} countries, France, America, China, Japan, Australia, no country was ready, in terms of something like that. There has to be in great consultation from developing countries to have people clearly on this thing. Whether it will be specific citizens that in a supposed future natural disaster to be ready. To be ready at all levels, to be ready in the police, in the fire service, in the health and welfare sector.

M: Sorry to interrupt you ELFG2_M3, but would you like this to be done at a central European level or would you like each country to do it on its own under the support of the EU.

ELFG2_M3: I think there should be a start, at this point where we are at the moment. Should the beginning be made either {by} Europe or it will be by each country? Everybody should take responsibility, be prepared. If not each country, the EU can say, “I have the personnel to be ready”. But the main thing is to make a start or to make a beginning. Not just in one profession, in all of them. Whether in earthquakes or floods, they are coming {natural disasters}, we already see some things.

[00:30:12]

ELFG2_F2: I believe that each EU country should have a task force, at national level, and moreover the whole EU, and if necessary {EU’s task force} should participate {probably she means support} with each country's task force, where {in any country} necessary.

ELFG2_M1: I think that if the EU wants to have the European solidarity card, there should exist a network of assistance in case of fires in one country, as we saw in Greece, or something similar in another country.

M: ELFG2_M1 and ELFG2_F2 you gave me a very nice pass, if there is a natural disaster in another country how do you think the other EU member - states should react? Not the EU as an entity. For example if there is a natural disaster in Spain how do you expect Slovakia to react.

ELFG2_M4: Can you repeat the question?

M: In case there is a natural disaster in another European country how should the other European countries react? Not as a whole, not as an EU.

ELFG2_M1: The reaction they should have is to help, even if the countries {in emergency} are part of the EU or not, like in our case with the wildfires and so on they helped several countries, so I think they should help.

ELFG2_M3: What we should not forget is that other countries, developing {probably means developed} countries should help the non-developing countries, that should not stop. Meaning, we should not wait for some devastation to come to support, we support from now for something good all, but the same {applies} for the non-developing country to support the developing country. There is a chain, if something cracks in the chain and breaks the game is lost.

ELFG2_F2: I just wanted to point out that in the wildfires that happened in Northern Evia, because I happen to be from there, the only country that came very warmly to help, it was Romania, and it helped very much, to the point where our {firefighters} were a bit apathetic.

M: We are staying in the same scenario. How do you think Greece should react. So when there is a natural disaster in another country, what should Greece do?

ELFG2_M3: I think Greece knows what it should do. It doesn't need to think about it.

M: What is this ELFG2_M3?

ELFG2_M3: Since 1919 Greece has never stopped having problems, in wars, in immigrants [M stops the participant].

M: No, no, I mean if there is a natural disaster in another country what should Greece do? Should it send help? Should it say "I'm a country in crisis, I won't help"? Should it judge which country is really in trouble?

ELFG2_M3: That's what I'm explaining, Greece knows what it should do. It will help, of course. It's one of those countries that always helps. That's what I want to tell you. We have experienced the disasters on our own skin. We have felt it for many years with migration, we have been migrants ourselves. I believe that Greece will be one of the first countries to send help, financial help, firefighters or health workers. It always sends help outside Europe as well.

M: Would anyone else like to add something?

(long pause)

M: Do you think there are European countries that in this situation should do more? Are there countries which should help more than other European countries?

ELFG2_M3: I don't think any non-EU country will move on its own. Developing non-EU countries will also move together, in consultation. For example China, England, USA, Russia will do something together. I think there will be something like that.

M: I am referring more to the European countries. So do you think that Germany as an economic superpower within the EU should do more than Spain, which experienced an economic crisis ten years ago, in case there is a fire in the Netherlands for example?

ELFG2_M1: I think it's not more or less, I think it's proportional to the economic capacity of each state, its population and so on and so forth. It's relative I mean.

ELFG2_F2: I agree with ELFG2_M1 but I want to add {that} it depends on how organized each country is. There are some countries which are better organized for some reasons I don't know, e.g. they are superpowers economically, {or in terms of} infrastructure, so I think some countries can contribute a little bit more not in terms of manpower but in terms of vehicles, if needed. For example Greece in terms of vehicles we are not that good, we don't have that good infrastructure compared to other EU countries.

ELFG2_M4: I think that whatever the situation is, the country should help because, especially in a natural disaster, we are talking about human lives I guess, whether it can send a fire truck or ten {it will} help, so any country should help, in my opinion.

[00:40:00]

M: I wanted to ask if there is a need for a crisis management team again, in a natural disaster, and Greece has a team available at that time. Should it send it? And if so, who should cover the cost?

ELFG2_M3: In a disaster, to speak humanly, you send help. You don't think about who's going to pay for it, how it's going to go, etc. You go and help. Those who have volunteered who have seen those who have been affected by disasters, by earthquakes by fires, you go and help. It's a shame to think about the financial part. {You help} As much as you can, that you have potential. Do you have manpower? Do you have machinery? Do you have the brains, the knowledge of how to deal with the victims, the fire trucks, the ambulances? You just go. Now from there, in consultation with all {the countries} together or the country can take responsibility.

ELFG2_M4: I agree. As a first step you send {help}, and the money or what will be needed anyway, comes second. Later, after some consultation between the country and the EU, but anyway, after {the end of the natural disaster}. You have to send help.

M: Do you think you have a personal responsibility to help in a crisis in another European country?

ELFG2_M3: I am concerned about what you asked, my profession is in the health sector. I have always been interested in going abroad, but what are the conditions? Here maybe I have a family, maybe I have my job. If I go to help another country in the EU, what will happen when I come back? Will I have lost my job? What will happen to my family? How will I go? And what will I do? There are these issues. There are people who want to help and not be allowed. What are the conditions for me to go abroad?

M: So ELFG2_M3 do you think that if there was a European support plan, let's say {supported by} volunteers, which would ensure that your job would not be lost and you would be compensated for your time and you could go to another European country to help in a crisis, would you care which European country it is or not?

ELFG2_M3: No, I wouldn't care which country. I have experienced an earthquake in the summer. I have seen my friends and relatives lose their homes, their village, their town destroyed. I wanted to go and help, I volunteered, but the thing is, when you leave the country, what happens back home? You may have a family or you can have your job and be well paid. But if you want to go, {if} you have the knowledge, {then} what happens? Yes of course and there should be a plan, a budget that in case of an emergency you-, because the emergency wants you there. {A country should consider} “I have so many citizens who want to go and help, who has that knowledge?” These things have to be done very quickly. To tell you yes, we'll make sure your job is secure, it won't be lost. They tell you that the expenses while you're there won't keep going {back home}.

ELFG2_M1: However, as far as whether it is a personal responsibility to help and as far as volunteering is concerned, I think volunteering is not an alibi for states not to staff well either the health sector, or the fire service or other sectors related to natural disaster protection and so on.

M: The volunteering part came out of the discussion, the original question was whether you feel the responsibility yourself to help another European state. Either voluntarily or not.

ELFG2_M1: Yes ok you have a personal responsibility if you can't do something about it it's out of your hands, so I wouldn't see it that way.

ELFG2_F2: I see it as a personal responsibility and yes if they said "You go and when you come back your job is not lost" I wouldn't be interested in being compensated and for the time I would go to help, I would go without thinking about it, as long as I know that after I come back I can have my job and pick up where I left off.

M: Let's go to another hypothetical scenario. Let's say that a euro crisis breaks out again, like the one we experienced in 2008-2009, and some countries are hit harder than others. So like the South in 2009 was hit much harder than the North. But in this case not Greece, but other Member States. How do you think Greece should react?

ELFG2_M3: Can I ask something? In 2009 what was the crisis we had?

M: Of the euro.

ELFG2_M1: The financial crisis, the global one.

ELFG2_M3: I have this to say on that. I don't know who's responsible, but I'll say it. I was 15 years old, we were getting loans, {nowdays} you can't get a loan from somewhere. Here we are, you can't get a loan, from a bank and not have them {the bank} tell you what month you're going to make the first payment. No one ever does. A lot of journalists are living this moment where they were then and they were all waiting for when they were going to get the first loan, when they were going to get the second loan, when they were going to get the third loan. What's going on there? Who is responsible? We weren't kids, I was 15 years old and I was watching it. Clearly for there to be a financial crisis if there is something else going on in Europe, in a European country, those who govern us are not children.

M: That's very true what you say, but how do you think that if what happened to us happened to another European country, should Greece react? Should we support it? Should it be apathetic towards it? Should Greece send help? Should Greece not send help? Should Greece say that it too is a battered country and it is none of its business? Given the current circumstances, how would you want Greece to react? What if, say, Slovakia had the same fate?

ELFG2_M3: As far as exactly the same thing that happened to Greece, I think everybody knows what to do, as a country that is going through it. As a neutral country? There are a lot of games being played there. The logic at the moment is saying 'you know what I went through it, deal with it this way. Start now. Make cuts, start now. Do it so the slaps don't come suddenly. Don't always let a certain number of citizens pay for it, like pensioners pay for it. They work their whole lives and sometimes they get cut {money} here then they get cut there. They are cut off from EFAPAX, deductions made over a lifetime and never given {back}.

ELFG2_F2: Basically I think every European country is going through the crisis, the economic crisis, on a different scale. This has to do with many factors. I think that Greece should, to the extent that it could, help.

[00:50:01]

ELFG2_M3: What any country could do, not just Greece-.

M: -Do you mind if we'll talk about it later, because are we talking about Greece now?

ELFG2_M3: Greece, I'll talk about Greece, {Greece} could help the country that's going through this crisis by buying products from there. Whether it's textiles or whether it's food. Support it financially. Whatever the other country exports (short pause) yes, support it.

ELFG2_M1: I think it would be a bit funny if a country goes through something like that and Greece comes out and says "They should have been careful, they shouldn't have entered the Euro with false {financial} data" [laughs].

M: Now let's assume that Greece is the one that is again being hit very hard by the Euro crisis. How do you think other European countries should react this time?

ELFG2_F2: I think that they should clearly support us, but on the other hand there will be a cost to this support again, which may come back to us some years later.

ELFG2_M4: As we said before about Greece, I believe that the other countries should help Greece again in any way they can and as much as they can.

ELFG2_M3: The biggest power right now in the EU is Germany. In the past Greece supported Germany when it had made tragic mistakes. It went as far as Greece being one of the countries that agreed to have half of its debt written off, {something} which hasn't happened for Greece. If the country bankrupts, one scenario is also this, to write off {the dept}. Something that shows in practice that what they say from the EU has been fulfilled.

M: If Greece was the country that was hit hard by the financial crisis and was going to receive financial aid again, pretty much as ten years ago. Do you think that rules and conditions should be set again that Greece would have to follow, as had happened with the memoranda? Or not?

ELFG2_M3: Clearly, the person who lends has to safeguard the money that he gives, to know that "if I give you certain money for the things you say, I want to know that you're sticking to them, not just giving it to you". Yes, it goes without saying that he has some control, but not total control. Know that I am asking you for the money for this and that purpose, so you, who give it to me, know that for this purpose are being {utilized}. I can't tell you that I want a loan to build accommodation for 100 people and me the next day going to the casino. You understand what I'm saying. And also to have the possibility that yes, Greece is being hit, but we will support it even more actively. I think I was clear before in what I said.

ELFG2_F2: Can you repeat the question?

M: If financial aid is again given to Greece, whether conditions should again be set and Greece should follow them.

ELFG2_F2: I think so, because as it turned out in the previous loan, we are probably a bit of an undisciplined people and we need someone to put us in line.

ELFG2_M1: The question is what the terms are and who they are targeting. I mean there is a big problem with corporate tax evasion etc. Is it fair for tax evasion to continue and under such a scheme to reduce the basic wage? I think not. So obviously when there is some borrowing, it's not a question of whether we want it or not. Obviously there will be some conditions. It's a question of who they target and who the burden falls on in practice.

M: Economic policy is to the greatest extent a national issue, would you be prepared if the EU or the European countries that lend to your country intervened in fiscal policy?

ELFG2_M3: I'm not sure I'm that concerned about it. Whether it's my country or whether it's a federal government type of government ultimately some interests of certain dominant economic groups are served. I don't see much difference in national policy as something that aims to protect my interests or something like that.

ELFG2_M3: The one who should be worried is not the citizen of the country in question, whether it's Greece, Slovakia, France or Italy. The one who should be worried is the politician who is in the government and gets the loan. If the politician does not behave properly and has wasted the loan on some other things, if you don’t check {the politician}, you who are lending him, should I check him, me? the last of the citizens? How am I responsible? We will all take responsibility, but the one who borrows who is left unchecked will also take responsibility. I chose him to make my life easier, someone who will be president, what is discussed from there onwards is not known to me or to any European citizen, and this applies not only to Greece but to every country.

M: I wanted to know how you would feel if the EU put conditions on borrowing again in times of crisis.

ELFG2_M3: There should be conditions but there should be a limit. You shouldn't get away with it because there might be political or geopolitical games beforehand. You cannot enter the country and want islands, ports you know what I mean, because as citizens of this country we see what is happening. And that is what we fear most as citizens of this country. Yes, to lend us money, but to stay within a limit, to get into the internal affairs of the country is, I think, too much.

M: Let's go to a third hypothetical scenario. If we consider that there are inequalities and differences in the EU, both between member states and within member states. And what I mean by that, let's take unemployment for example. There are countries with very high unemployment rates, like Greece and Spain, and there are countries with very low unemployment rates. Also, within the states themselves there are sectors that have very high unemployment rates and correspondingly sectors with very high unemployment rates. Do you think that the EU should have a common programme to reduce these inequalities, for example unemployment? And why? And if not, why not?

ELFG2_M3: Can you repeat the question?

M: Considering that there are inequalities in the EU and let's take unemployment for example, do you think that the EU should intervene as a union in the states, let's say to reduce unemployment or should each state do what it thinks it should do?

ELFG2_F2: I think that initially there should be {in} each EU state individually a liaison office that brings together the unemployment part, for example one in Greece, one in France and a central core {so that} it is processed for all EU member states. It would be better managed, there would be a better result, in the sense that for better or worse this is true some EU countries have better infrastructure in general, I think that's the reality. So, I think that maybe some other member states might be helped, through a central core.

ELFG2_M4: And I would agree. In the first phase the country itself can see what it needs, especially with unemployment because I think every country has different needs, so for example in Greece maybe needs doctors, in Germany they may need office employees and then if they see that they can't figure it out, then they can proceed to the EU centrally.

ELFG2_M3: The EU could also say that centrally I have this model, I have set it up, I have used statistics and time and it has a basis and it provides this, this and this. Do you want it? So they dont wait for the country to ask for help and we lose time. So, there can be a model and as a first aid solution so {the EU} tell you, I have this, try it.

ELFG2_F2: But there is a possibility that a particular model presented by the EU may not suit a country. So, I think it is better for the EU member state to give a direction to the central core to have a better management and to target specifically the part that is of interest.

M: So, would you be willing for the EU to be able to intervene in your country to reduce a social inequality such as unemployment, or do you think it is an area that should remain in the country?

ELFG2_M3: Clearly it is a problem for each country, but as ELFG2_F2 said, each country should know what it has. Just as she said. You can't have total control and the EU can't intervene, each country has to because each country has different policies, different management internally, so this model should be adapted in Germany, adapted in Slovakia, in Hungary and different in Greece. We cannot have one for all.

M: If there is this pan-European, unemployment management system, like what ELFG2_F2 said, it is believed that it should be financed equally by all European countries.

ELFG2_M4: Somewhat and yes and no. In the sense that they can go with one but low {financial contribution} and {all countries} contribute to it or else each country should have its own contribution as much as it can.

M: Do you mean proportionally?

ELFG2_M4: Yes, yes, that it.

ELFG2_M3: Ideally it would be a cost for each country can bear. Bulgaria's economy is that, Greece's economy is that and so the developing countries should follow. Everybody should be at the sustainable, at what they can give, for a beginning. If a country can give more, we see.

ELFG2_M1: And I {agree, it should be} based on the proportionality of both GDP and population.

ELFG2_F2: I'll agree with the guys too.

M: Today we discussed how the EU touches on different social and economic issues, are there other areas that are seen to be related to mutual support within the EU?

[Participants asked M to explain the question again and again but with the mics turned off, there is a gap of about 3 minutes]

[01:10:46]

ELFG2_M3: We have already discussed economic and natural disasters, a piece that could unite the EU and bring it closer, and is something we are still discussing in 2022, it has to do with racial discrimination and what every person thinks in its personal life. There should be more freedom. This person will gain something, all people should say what they have to say, none should stop them because X, Ψ person has some experiences, some phobias. Everyone must be able to speak and we will gain a lot from everyone. This could unite all countries not only in the EU, but globally. To be able to say chill [laughs].

MA2: So ELFG2_M3 are you telling us that you would like all EU member states to have the same human rights laws?

ELFG2_Μ3: That would be ideal. Now each country will be able to judge and decide what each country can do. But this would be ideal, if not for them to have the same rights, for everyone to have their say, to have their own ideas. Every citizen, from the highest {in the ranks} to the homeless, must have equal rights and have their say. You can gain a lot from many, from people you do not expect it.

M: So ELFG2_M3 how would you feel if there was a central policy in the EU and it intervened in Greece and the other member states, so that all citizens have the same rights?

ELFG2_Μ3: I said it and I say it again. Yes, it will have the view of the EU, but in consultation with each country. "You know what, I am here, I can not intervene without the country having an opinion, nor wave my finger that I do this and that" because the three fingers will point back to the EU, it is not possible.

M: If a central political direction is established for refugees, we see that countries like Poland and Hungary have a very strict, or even aggressive, policy towards refugees, and Europe operates with unanimity. How would you feel if such a policy was imposed, in quotation marks, on Greece?

ELFG2_M3: Do you mean to accept Poland's views on this part of management?

M: What I mean is that in order for the EU to make a decision, all its members must agree, since some members are far from our ideas, you would be willing for a European direction to be imposed on your country so that we are all Member States at the same level?

ELFG2_Μ3: The decision to be made must satisfy everyone. There must be a bridge from North to South, there must be both good and strict. We must not be on the edge. Did you tell me about Polish politics a while ago?

M: Not specifically, I gave an example

ELFG2_Μ3: There must be a bridge, we and the citizen of the North must agree on the measures that will be taken. Because they have and see some things that I, down here, may not see. I believe that there should be a control over the {migration} flows, of who you are and what you are, but I do not think that we should leave {migrants} at sea. {I believe that we should} be able to house every citizen who comes but there should be no exploitation from behind. You cannot pass me off as stupid, {but} you cannot put children in danger, children die on beaches and I tell you to stay there and I do not give you anything. Even more Greece that we are a country where we have lived in these situations, where we have been refugees but there must also be a bridge to the management of the EU. The golden section as they call it, must be found.

M: Would anyone like to add something?

ELFG2_M4: Could you repeat the question?

M: Do you think there are other areas that could lead to mutual cooperation between the EU Member States? After more than 1 minute they ask me to explain the question "If you could find other areas where we could say that what is happening we will face all the states together or what is happening divides us, because we have different interests."

[01:19:11 - 01:24:58 participants asked for a small break]

M: One could argue that the pandemic was one such area that brought the EU closer together, because after the pandemic came the common recovery fund was created, vaccines were given to the countries and as we speak we see that Greece has so many vaccines at its disposal that it is even giving them to its neighbours in the Balkans. So can you think of such an area that can bring the EU closer together or break it apart?

ELFG2_M1: I think talking about the negative, about what will break it up. I think a key point where there is a debate and I think there is no common ground is foreign policy. If there can be a unified foreign policy, which given that there is no political unification first I think there cannot be a unified foreign policy. Even France and Germany have different {positions} in their foreign policy. The same goes for the other peripheral EU countries and I don't see any common foreign policy emerging soon on the horizon, maybe with an asterisk at the fairly minimum, as there could be some common mood towards Russia, which some countries are more and some less inclined to do that, but that's about it.

ELFG2_F2: I would agree with ELFG2_M1 as each country has different interests, of course from time to time we see some efforts but we don't know if they are substantial or just for show-off. (long pause) I would also like to add something else about equal rights, some EU countries are more open on this and some countries, I think Greece is also {among them}, quite behind and I think that the EU could maybe help us and direct us a bit more on this.

ELFG2_M3: I think there are many things that can bring the EU countries closer together, will to be there. It's entrepreneurship, it's the health sector, it's the energy sector, it's the agriculture sector. The will is needed to make the integration work well.

ELFG2_F2: It's a question of the Member States and the EU understanding whether they are ultimately interested in people or money. So are we moving people-centred? Are we interested in the common good of the citizens? Or do we put money first and citizens second?

M: In closing, is there anything else that came up during the discussion or did you think about it before you came here and would you like to discuss it? Any other issue that touches on the EU that you would like to add?

ELFG2_F2: A European constitution could be created I would say. There could be a common European constitution for all member states, maybe that way some member states that are more behind in general can open up horizons, become more progressive.

M: Would anyone else like to add something?

(long pause)

M: Thank you very much for joining us, see you at dinner.