M: What are the first three thoughts that you think of when you hear the European Union or the EU. You can take a few minutes to think. If you wish, for example, you can write down your three thoughts on a blank paper or in an empty Word document.

(long pause)

FIFG2_M4: I probably think mainly about trade and bureaucracy and now more recently cooperation.

M: Thank you!

FIFG2_F3: I think a bit the same, trade and cooperation.

FIFG2_M1: I agree with that too.

FIFG2_M2: The economic part becomes apparent. The fact that you can move freely within the EU is one thing. And then now that Russia has started to rattle up a little bit again, military help from the EU if something happens.

M: Thank you! I would just like to briefly ask those of you who said 'cooperation' is there anything specific you are thinking about, or cooperation in general?

FIFG2_M4: I am thinking mainly of how much aid has come to Ukraine, but also overall.

FIFG2_F3: I think perhaps most about support for traveling, that you can travel a little. Now it is perhaps a little different, considering the COVID19 and now since what is taking place {the conflict}, you would not do it {travel}. But before all this, one could travel, so cooperation between countries in this way.

M: Thank you. We go to the next question. How would you describe your overall opinion and attitude towards the EU?

FIFG2_M1: I think I have a fundamentally positive attitude towards the EU and always have had. Ever since 1995 {when Finland joined the EU}.

FIFG2_M2: Pretty neutral, I don't care too much.

FIFG2_M4: I would say that if you had asked two weeks ago, then more negative, but now absolutely more positive.

FIFG2_F3: I'm pretty neutral overall. I've moved more towards the neutral side. I think it was more positive in the beginning when we joined. But now I may not feel so… or not so positive vibes more perhaps.

M: Thank you! If it were then claimed that the EU membership has been beneficial for Finland, what benefits would you list?

FIFG2_F3: Maybe it is that you can travel and move freely, those who travel and even those who travel because of work can do it a little freer. Then at some stage the currency also played a big role, you didn't have to change currency to travel somewhere. You can get by in the euro countries with the euro. The disadvantage there is then again that it was ultimately a little more expensive than we had expected, when you now count back to the old markka, which you should not do. But sometimes you do.

FIFG2_M1: Yes, it was most the common currency I was thinking about. However, there are some countries that have retained their old currency but are still members of the EU.

FIFG2_M2: I think one of the mistakes we made with the currency was not to take these less than five cent coins because it has ultimately made some things more expensive than they might otherwise have been.

M: If we try to focus on these benefits {of the EU} do you have FIFG2_M2 any benefits you would like to bring up?

FIFG2_M2: The Finnish passport has always been quite strong. So much easier {travelling did not become}... that much more free movement it did not bring in the end {the EU membership}. Perhaps less visa and things like that are needed, living in other countries is much easier. But the Finnish passport has always been quite strong if you want to travel a little. But if you want to move to another EU country, it's much easier {now}.

FIFG2_M4: I don’t come to think of anything to say, because when Finland joined the EU, I was only four years old, so I don't remember much of the time before. So, I have nothing to say.

M: Okay, thanks for your answers! If we turn the cake around and if it were to be argued that EU membership has been unfavorable to Finland, what disadvantages would you list? Some of you may have already been a little into this, but you are welcome to motivate or come up with something new.

(long pause)

FIFG2_F3: Everything would be even more expensive than what we have right now if the state were to think that we would go back, remove the currency, and leave the EU, then we could have a pretty interesting case in front of us... And then everything would cost a lot more. Although the price level is already quite high on food.

FIFG2_M1: In some cases, there have been some problems with the legislation, EU having a certain view of things and Finland another. So... you would think that the country itself decides on important things, now it is quite far in that way as well, but sometimes there is always a little problem.

FIFG2_M2: If some countries have some severe economic problems, there can be problems for all member states, so that can also be a negative thing.

M: Thank you! Do FIFG2_M4 have anything yet to comment on?

FIFG2_M4: I snuff and 50 euros for ten units from Sweden, I would like to see Finland have more self-determination there.

M: Thank you for your answers! We move on and I want you to imagine that there is a large-scale natural disaster such as an earthquake, flood or a forest fire in an EU country. How should the EU as an institution react?

FIFG2_M2: Now I'm not sure if there is one, but there should be a cash register were all member states put some money that then everyone... when something bigger happens, that it is taken from there {money} in the first place.

M: Thank you.

FIFG2_M1: Yes, that sounds good. Other EU countries should help if a country is struggling.

M: Why do you think so? Is it because we all are part of the Union and therefore, we have a common responsibility, or?

FIFG2_M1 Yes, mostly that.

M: Thank you.

FIFG2_M4: I would say pretty much the same there, a collaboration when someone needs help, then you help as much as you can.

M: Thank you.

FIFG2_F3: That is right, to help when it is needed. And then if we turn the cake over if something happens to us {Finland} then hopefully someone in the EU could also help us.

M: Okay, so a mutual cooperation, that we help them and them us?

FIFG2_F3: [nods=yes]

[00:11:26]

M: Okay, thank you. Do you think that any particular EU country should do more than other EU countries in the event of a natural disaster like this?

FIFG2_M1: Well, the big EU countries, those with a strong economy, should pay more. But if it's fair, I don't know.

M: Are you unsure if it's fair although they might have more opportunity to do so {to help}, compared to smaller countries?

FIFG2_M1: Yes... Anyone who has more should share more. Those who don't have should get away more easily {should not have to pay that much}.

M: So, some kind of relationship with the economic ability the country has to help with.

FIFG2_M1: Yes, mostly that.

M: Thank you.

FIFG2_F3: I think to be able to help, that's the financial part. But then actually I would like to say that the closer countries, of course, depends on where it happens, be able to send people to help or other things. Money is also a good option, but it depends on what has happened. You may not put out large forest fires with just money, there you may also need some other help.

M: If I understood you correctly, you think that some geographical factor also plays a role there, where {the disaster} happens, and how we in Finland can help this country.

FIFG2_F3: [nods=yes]

FIFG2_M4: I agree with that. The countries that are close can perhaps contribute with more practical purposes, extinguishing fires and those {countries} that are at a distance can contribute in other ways. With things like financial {help}... I'm not entirely sure.

M: Okay, thank you.

FIFG2_M2: The geographical {factor} is quite logical. Those who are closer help more with the practical things. But you could also start a joint crisis action group that also goes more into it, and each country would have more to say if they want to be part of it.

M: Okay, so it would be the countries' own decision how much they contribute to the crisis management group?

FIFG2_M2: Yes, and how much they can contribute with, and different countries may have things they are in different ways good at, so they can then help with different things if something happens.

M: Okay. But if I understood you all correctly, you are welcome to correct me if I did not, but if, for example, something should happen in Sweden, do you feel that Finland could do more than if something were to happen in Spain?

FIFG2_M2: Of course, it's so much easier to send help if it's close.

FIFG2_F3: [nods=yes]

M: And if it were in Spain, the Italians or the Portuguese would go there and help?

FIFG2_F3: [nods=yes]

FIFG2_M2: And the French, of course.

M: Yes, thank you. How, then, should Finland react in this context? If there has been a large-scale natural disaster in an EU country. If we put Finland in focus, how should Finland as a single country react?

FIFG2_M2: Perhaps with some first aid package, perhaps with doctors or material in that spirit. Maybe if part of the arm forces could have a crisis group, they can send it out wherever it is needed, but first aid and engineering groups and such.

M: Thank you!

FIFG2_F3: We also have the Finnish Red Cross, which could certainly do a lot. In other disaster areas, people are sent {via the Red Cross} depending on... they can build up electricity networks they can build up telephone networks, build hospitals and other things quite quickly. I'm sure we could do that, if we were able get people together, we could send them there.

FIFG2_M1: That's the things we can do. Or could do in such a case.

M: Okay, FIFG2_M4 still want to add something, or should we move on?

FIFG2_M4: No, I agree with the others.

M: Then we go to the next question. If there was a need to send a crisis management team, doctors or firefighters to the affected country, do you believe that Finland should do so and if we do, who will bear the costs? FIFG2_M2 was probably already a bit into it in his previous answer.

FIFG2_M2: There, as in the previous question, we would have the common cash register where everyone puts money. Which would pay primarily for crisis situations.

M: So, you think we should not take money from Finland's coffers, but it should be common funds?

FIFG2_M2: Primarily from a common cash register that would be set up in some way. But if more is needed, it is up to the member states to pay as much as they can if they want.

M: Thank you!

(long pause)

FIFG2_F3: I agree with FIFG2_M2. You must look at the situation first by using common funds and if you then within the country think that you have the opportunity to give {more money} then you can look what is a good sum.

M: Okay.

FIFG2_M1: Yes, I agree with what has been said.

FIFG2_M4: I also agree with that, to start by taking from common funds, if that is not enough, then you can take it from elsewhere.

[00:20:55]

M: Thank you! Last question for this segment, do you personally feel a responsibility to help, in the event of a natural disaster in an EU country.

FIFG2_F3: You should help if you can. Then how to help is another matter. Is it then the case that you voluntarily want to donate something, humanitarian aid or first aid, or emergency things or is it then money, that is up to you.

M: Thank you!

FIFG2_M2: Some of our taxes go to some kind of crisis register that the state uses when needed. I don't know if you have much else to do besides that as an individual citizen.

M: Thank you!

FIFG2_M1: Everyone does what they can do, according to their own resources.

M: So, you would do in this situation what you can do?

FIFG2_M1: Yes, if help is needed, I'd like to give it.

M: Okay, thank you.

FIFG2_M4: I agree most with FIFG2_M2. That if it already exists that money is taken from taxes, that's a good thing. If you want to do something additional yourself, that's of course a good thing.

M: Thank you very much! We go to the following scenario, so to speak. If an economic crisis like the euro crisis happens again and some countries are hit more severely than others, how should Finland react, what do you think?

(long pause)

FIFG2_M1: Finland must help together with other countries, jointly. As the case was when Italy was in trouble. Maybe it was perhaps a loan. It's then a different matter when you get it back {the loan}.

M: You however think that Finland should help?

FIFG2_M1: Yes, you should help if you have the possibility to do so.

M: Is it for any particular reason you think so, is it because we are all part of the Union and therefore, we have a shared responsibility for all countries?

FIFG2_M1: I think it’s foremost a joint responsibility.

M: Okay, thank you.

(long pause)

FIFG2_F3: Surely, we must do our part as well, as, surely others would do if it were to apply to us {Finland would be in an economic crisis}.

FIFG2_M2: There is something in these EU charters how to help and so on, you should stick to them.

(long pause)

FIFG2_M4: I didn't follow the euro crisis very much so I can't really comment very much on it. But certainly, part of the obligations to be part of {the union} I suppose is to help in crises, so something must be done.

M: Okay, thank you. Would you say that it would distinguish between which country is affected in the euro crisis {how much we help}.

FIFG2_M2: More perhaps why the country suffers, whether it is very self-inflicted or not.

M: What if it's self-inflicted?

FIFG2_M2: Then there must be some form of punishment or compensation included in the picture if there is to be help. If it's very... corrupt things that have happened or similar {that have caused the crisis}.

M: So, a little bit context-based then depending on what has caused the economic crisis in the country if I understood you correctly.

FIFG2_M2: Exactly.

M: Okay.

(long pause)

M: Do you all agree with FIFG2_M2, or do you have anything else to add, are there differences between which country is affected in the EU or is it the same rules for everyone and that we help equally all countries.

FIFG2_M1: I agree pretty much with FIFG2_M2. Of course, if it... if it is then due to self-inflicted or corruption and such, you have to think a little about according to what requirements you can help.

M: Would there be such requirements that one would assure that the country had to change its behavior?

FIFG2_M1: Yes, that's the first thing, that they have to change their behavior. Of course, otherwise there will be no change.

M: Thank you.

FIFG2_F3: I actually agree with both previous ones {answers}. Then maybe I go a little bit into… as it was with Italy it was a loan, how it is to be repaid and if it is repaid which you hope for… so it is then another discussion.

M: Does anyone have anything to add, or should we move on?

FIFG2_M1: We can move on.

M: You don't want to FIFG2_M4 say anything either?

FIFG2_M4: I agree with what has been said, it depends on the circumstances. If it is self-inflicted and so on, then there should be requirements.

M: Okay. If Finland is negatively or severely affected by the economic crisis, how should the other EU countries react? What do you expect?

[00:31:02]

FIFG2_F3: You can't make any demands, but you wish you would get the same treatment that we could give if someone else is affected.

M: So, a sort of returned favor?

FIFG2_F3: [nods=yes]

FIFG2_M2: I would hope that they follow the charters and contracts that exist {in the EU}. If they help more {additional help besides what is written in the EU charters}, you are happy with that. But I don't expect them to help any more than they have to.

M: Thank you! FIFG2_M1 had something to say before.

FIFG2_M1: I would just say that Finland has generally managed its economy well, that the chance is small that we end up in such a situation. But you can still think about it what happens in such a case. So of course, you hope to get help from other EU countries and also then that you change your behavior if you have gotten into such a situation.

M: So, you FIFG2_M1 also think that it is context-based for Finland's case, that if we are the ones who have caused this crisis...

FIFG2_M1: Yes, the same as for other countries. If you make a fool of yourself, you have to be ashamed or suffer for it [laughter].

FIFG2_M2: Same rules for all countries.

M: Okay.

FIFG2_M4: Yes, I would say the same thing. There are certainly guidelines for how this should work.

M: Thank you for your answers! Then we go to the last segment, you should bear in mind that there are inequalities between countries and between people in a country. Should the EU have a common programme or fund to reduce inequalities in society, for example regarding the increasing income inequalities in society. If "yes" then why, if "no" then why not. Please explain how you think in this issue. Please ask me to repeat, that was a long question.

(long pause)

FIFG2_M2: Take the question again and we'll have time to think for a little while more [laughter].

M: Absolutely! Keep in mind that there are inequalities between countries and between people in a country. Should the EU have a common programme or fund to reduce inequalities in society, for example regarding the increasing income inequalities in society. If "yes" then why, if "no" then why not.

(long pause)

FIFG2_M1: Yes, perhaps the EU should have such a fund and thus correct this pay gap that exists in such a country. But that is a problem in several EU countries... it is a difficult question.

(long pause)

FIFG2_M4: I can't really respond positively or negatively to it {to the question}. I don't know, in what way would money from this fund be used. That's where I start to think.

M: You {FIFG2_M4} think it would seem like a complicated system?

FIFG2_M4: I don't know, I can't really say "yes" or "no." It can certainly be used in a good way, but I can also imagine that it can cause... problems, I don't know, I can't say "yes" or "no."

FIFG2_M2: Where would the money for such a fund come from? Is it from individual citizens or from taxes or is it the very rich who would be taxed more to pay for such a fund?

M: Now, when we talk about a common fund or a joint programme, I suppose all the EU countries would contribute to it. But if there's a relationship to how rich the countries are, I don't know. You are also welcomed to take a position on that. Should richer countries contribute more than poorer countries?

FIFG2_M1: Morally speaking, it would be good in that way. In reality they are hardly so eager to pay more than others.

M: Thank you.

FIFG2_F3: I don't really know what to say about this. Money in all glory, funds there and funds here… money does not change a person's attitude. It comes from the people themselves, I mean sure, we could raise money... then we're going to put some shift in the people to get them to "well" now people are like this now they're supposed to be like this. I mean attitudes whether it is in the same country or in other countries... it is about how people behave. It's according to behavior it's not money that steers... Or to some extent, money steers behavior, I hope you understand how I think.

M: Thank you. FIFG2_M2 had something to say, you're welcome to say if you still remember what it was.

FIFG2_M2: It was more that maybe it should be seen more on the very rich and how morally or... Should billionaires exist, for example? They should be taxed much more harshly those who are very rich and, in this way, get to the increasing gaps between rich and poor.

[00:40:33]

M: Should these very rich also give more to this joint program or do you generally think it should be managed through tougher taxation so that income inequality decreases?

FIFG2_M2: Greater taxation on the very rich, there is no reason why an individual should be a billionaire for example.

M: Thank you! Does anyone have anything to say to FIFG2_M2 comment, or does anyone have anything else they want to share?

FIFG2_M1 I think I share the same opinion as FIFG2_M2. Those who have a lot should also pay more.

M: So, it would be fair that those who have more also contributes more?

FIFG2_M1: I would say that.

M: Thank you! If no one has anything to add, let's go to the next question. You can always come back to a previous question even though we've already moved on. A bit of the same theme then. Do you think that the EU should have an EU-wide system for dealing with unemployment in all member states, which is then financed by all member states?

FIFG2_M2: There are such big differences between countries that it would be problematic if all {countries} were to go under one system.

M: So, you don't see how this system would work in practical?

FIFG2_M2: Exactly. There are large differences between different countries, also where the majority of the people work can also differ between countries.

FIFG2_M4: Considering this, I could probably see this thing with free movement to come in handy. Say, for example... if over a longer period companies may be able to reposition their operations to different countries without hindrance and so where there is a bigger or lesser need. Maybe according to that.

M: Do you mean that companies should move their operations to countries that have a higher unemployment rate to reduce it? Or did I understand you wrong?

FIFG2_M4: That the possibility would at least exist, that it should be something that is a compulsion {for the companies} I don’t think. But I do see the possibility of free movement.

M: Thank you!

FIFG2_M1: In practice, companies move to such countries where there is cheaper labor. It's always the economy that controls it, so maybe it's not... that they would move to such countries where there is more unemployment. Of course, if the salary level is lower there then they would.

M: Yes, so you think it is an obstacle to such a comprehensive system because the companies would still go according to what is most economically useful for them?

FIFG2_M1: Yes, I think they would. Their job in the larger picture is to make a big profit.

M: Thank you! Have you FIFG2_F3 already answered the question? You of course don’t must.

FIFG2_F3: I don't have much to say, I agree most with the others in this case.

M: Meaning that it would be difficult to maintain such a system?

FIFG2_F3: [nods=yes]

FIFG2_F3: I don't really see how to make it work in practice, that's where the problem comes in general.

M: Is it because of what FIFG2_M2 also mentioned that it is because of the different situations of the countries that it would be difficult to make it go together in a good way?

FIFG2_F3: Yes.

M: Okay. We stick to the same theme but take a slightly narrower perspective. Should the EU try to reduce unemployment in a specific country? Would that change your previous answers?

FIFG2_M1: Perhaps we should know why a country has so many unemployed people. What's causing it, try to do something about it. Help is surely needed but is it only financial help which would help the situation?

M: You mean that you would go after the fundamental problems that could also be political, for example, and not just economic {problems}?

FIFG2_M1: Exactly.

M: Then I understood you correctly. What about FIFG2_M2 who thought that in a larger perspective such a system would have been complicated, does it change if we are talking only about one country?

FIFG2_M2: It does not change anything in the end... To help, so to speak, is more to preach to them how to do it. And that would not be happily received by the people of that country either.

FIFG2_F3: You may first need to find out the cause, is it the gender gap that is the cause or is it the age gap that causes a higher unemployment, before you would go in and do something there. I don't know if you can do anything or is it what FIFG2_M2 said it would be received negatively "that what are you coming here, take care of yourself".

M: Thank you. Should we move on, or does anyone want to still say something?

(long pause)

M: I take it as a "no," and we move on. Then we come to the last question on this theme, should Finland help to reduce unemployment in another EU country, even if it would mean extra costs for us?

[00:49:18]

FIFG2_F3: It's hard to say we have quite a... or maybe not so high but we have unemployment that is not so easy to deal with here either. So, in this case, perhaps it would be reason to look after ourselves first, unfortunately.

M: So first solve the domestic problems and then look outwards?

FIFG2_F3: Yes.

FIFG2_M1: Yes, I agree with that. To do something about your own country's unemployment in the first place and not waste energy on any other country.

M: Thank you!

FIFG2_M1 What I still wanted to say that in the future Finland will need labor force because the population is ageing here quite a lot. So, in such cases, unemployed people from other countries could come here [laughter].

M: Okay. Please FIFG2_M4, I think you were next.

FIFG2_M4: Well, I thought here, that let's say that if a country already has its own problems with unemployment, I think you can't put as much pressure on them to help others with their unemployment.

M: Okay, so some kind of correlation with what the situation looks like on the domestic side, so to speak. Everyone has responded, right? Or does anyone have something to say?

FIFG2_M2: I don't have much to add to that question.

M: Okay. We are nearing the end, but I have some final questions I would still like to ask of you. Today we have discussed the EU from different areas such as social inequalities and economic issues. Are there some other areas that you would say are relevant when talking about relations and about mutual cooperation within the European Union. Which has not yet been mentioned today.

FIFG2_M1 One thing I was thinking about is defense, a common defense. More cooperation could be done there.

M: Are you thinking about this European army that, for example, the French President has spoken about or are you thinking more about NATO, or generally just about a common defense?

FIFG2_M1: Yes, I wasn't thinking about NATO now, but... Of course, it lurks behind the corner too. I was mostly thinking of a common defense.

M: In the EU?

FIFG2_M1: In the EU, yes.

FIFG2_M4: I would like to add that I would like to see the EU take on such a role that NATO would not be needed as much around Europe. That you would get more... I'm not very fond of federalism, but overall, it seems to be going in the direction that you can't quite manage on your own. So, if the EU could take on a role that NATO has but more locally around Europe.

M: Thank you.

FIFG2_M1: The problem is that many EU countries are currently NATO countries as well. So, it mixes things a little bit.

M: Okay. Do FIFG2_F3 or FIFG2_M2 have anything they want to say?

FIFG2_M2: A common defense within the EU would be better than... In NATO, the US has too much, what should I say…. has too much a say in NATO as a single country. So, a common defense within the EU would be an even better thing to have. But how it would work, that you would see {later} if something happens.

M: Okay, thank you.

FIFG2_F3: I mostly agree, a common defense rather than other options.

M: Would it be better than NATO?

FIFG2_F3: [nods=yes]

M: Okay. How would you say that the areas we have talked about today are linked to Finland's future in the EU? Are they relevant?

FIFG2_F3: We can always hope.

FIFG2_M2: The economic part is relevant, that is almost why you are in the EU in the first place, and hopefully defense would also become a part of it.

M: Okay. FIFG2_M1 nods he agrees?

FIFG2_M1 I agree with what FIFG2_M2 said.

FIFG2_M4: I would probably agree and would like to see more that the EU would go against something that focuses on defense more than just the economy.

M: Okay, thank you. What would be your last comment for the discussion? You don't have to have one, but if someone has something to say, please do.

FIFG2_M1: If you think about this, not so easy questions to answer when you are not prepared in any way. But you {still} think about it and try to answer something [laughter].

M: Yes, absolutely. These are big questions and as you yourself say that when you are not prepared, it is always difficult to answer on a short-term notice. But the discussion has been good, thank you for that. Does anyone have anything yet to add? Otherwise, I'll go to our last question.

FIFG2_F3: One can always hope that we will remain in the EU and take advantage of the EU, which we have done so far. That we do not, like some other countries, withdraw all the sudden and hope that you can stand on your own two feet and may not quite succeed.

M: What is this advantage that you mentioned?

FIFG2_F3: We've had a... The currency is a part of this… if you go abroad, you can use... You don't have to change currency. To name one thing.

M: Okay. Let's go to the last question. Is there anything you would like to ask or wonder about that I have not mentioned today?

(long pause)

M: I take it as a “no”. Thank you so much to everyone for participating today, it was a good discussion, thank you.